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  1. #121
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Given that the institutions would be legally equivalent, the court would see both as civil unions functionally, but call one marriage and the other something else.

    There would obviously be religious documentation reflecting the establishment of a marriage under the holy right of matrimony, but that doesn't involve the legal system in any way.
    Or you just do it like we do it. People can have a 'standesamtliche Trauung' (register-office wedding) or a 'kirchliche Trauung' (church wedding), or both (in which case they usually go to the church first to celebrate and then to the register office for ten minutes to make it legal). Has been working for over a hundred years.

  2. #122
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    It's not ideal, but I believe it would be a welcome progress.

    Between 90% of something and 100% of nothing, it's wise to choose the former.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  3. #123
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    Diplomacy is the shit.

  4. #124
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i really don't care what it's called but if i ever want to legally bind myself to someone else in this way again i'd like it to be called whatever it is we're calling the union between same sex or non religious couples.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #125
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    I have a question tho.

    What percentage of married couples do you think are married for religious reasons?

    I honestly can't say that I know anyone who is...The only married religious people I know are for gay marriage.

    So... If the percentage is actually low in comparison it would seem that a religious marriage ought to be called something else.

    That is if a distinguishing term is needed by them.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  6. #126
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    @DiscoBiscuit

    It seems like when you say we shouldn't bother changing it, you are claiming the difference is trivial word change. But when we ask why not change such a trivial thing, you talk about some greater implications as though it were not just a trivial word change.

    The back and forth is tiring me.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It seems like when you say we shouldn't bother changing it, you are claiming the difference is trivial word change. But when we ask why not change such a trivial thing, you talk about some greater implications as though it were not just a trivial word change.

    The back and forth is tiring me.
    Have you ever considered that whats legally trivial to you, may not be a trivial distinction to someone else?

  8. #128
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Have you ever considered that whats legally trivial to you, may not be a trivial distinction to someone else?
    That has nothing to do with this. I don't know what's trivial to you or not because you seem to be alternating.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    That has nothing to do with this. I don't know what's trivial to you or not because you seem to be alternating.
    What matters to the SSM movement is legal equivalency.

    What matters to some religious folks is maintaining some distinction between the holy right of matrimony and SS civil unions.

    Homo's don't want to live under and unequal legal regime, and the religious want to be able to maintain marriage as it has existed for the them for thousands of years.

    By making them legally equivalent, and using different names, you allow the religious to have their distinction, and the homo's to have equal rights.

    I'm assuming that you have no way of fathoming why a tradition like that would be important to the religious, while it amounts to merely a name for others.

  10. #130
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    What matters to the SSM movement is legal equivalency.

    What matters to some religious folks is maintaining some distinction between the holy right of matrimony and SS civil unions.

    Homo's don't want to live under and unequal legal regime, and the religious want to be able to maintain marriage as it has existed for the them for thousands of years.

    By making them legally equivalent, and using different names, you allow the religious to have their distinction, and the homo's to have equal rights.

    I'm assuming that you have no way of fathoming why a tradition like that would be important to the religious, while it amounts to merely a name for others.
    *sigh*


    So, like I've said three or four times now, I don't understand why the religious demand as you stated it can't be met while still giving the legal union for heterosexuals and homosexuals the same name. You could legally have marriage apply to homosexuals while still not having it in church, or you could make it so legally people including heterosexuals can only get civil unions while leaving what we call marriage strictly up to church practice.

    The unease is at the notion that it should be the greater religious significance placed on heterosexuals marriages should be symbolically enshrined in the law that everyone must obey.

    I don't have a problem comprehending that a word or a tradition might matter to people (even if I still think it's stupid), but that isn't what I'm doubting. I'm doubting that you need to express this tradition in the law.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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