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  1. #11
    Epiphany
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    When I was in the military, half of our platoon was hanging out before formation one day and talking about comic books and decided to take a vote on which each Marine would rather be: a superhero or supervillain. I thought the subject matter was a bit silly, but I participated anyway. I was surprised when I was only one of three guys who said hero over villain. I figured with the indoctrination of the Corps and general patriotic pride in the US military, the majority would at least want to view themselves as heroic. Plenty of evil has been committed in the name of "heroism" so the fact that some of our troops would rather be regarded as villainous was a frightening thought.

    In a simplistic view, villainy is characterized by selfishness and heroism as selflessness, though many so-called heroes have selfish motivations disguised as selfless acts. In general, I find heroes more intriguing than villains because they are dealing with the same selfish impulses that everyone else does and they try to resist them for the greater good; whereas, villains give in to their base desires at the expense of others; disregarding the fact that other people deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. I don't find such people pleasant to be around even when abiding by the law.

    Morality, however, is a bit subjective sometimes which blurs the distinction between good vs evil and heroes vs villains. Some villains are intriguing from an analytical perspective regarding their psychological motivations, particularly when their crimes are extreme or especially heinous and out of the ordinary.

    I think people who are attracted to power are more inclined to find villains admirable in some way, such as serial killer groupies. It's astounding how many women were enthralled by Ted Bundy despite his grotesque sexual crimes against his victims. I don't think these women were overwhelmed with empathy for this deranged man or some kind of misplaced compassion, as much as a sick adoration for his infamy and the sensational attention that his crimes attracted, like a form of high social status compared to the average boring male who abides by the law and has respect for other people. It's like the bad boy trope taken to the extreme. It goes way beyond having confidence and a charming persona.

  2. #12
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post

    I think people who are attracted to power are more inclined to find villains admirable in some way, such as serial killer groupies. It's astounding how many women were enthralled by Ted Bundy despite his grotesque sexual crimes against his victims. I don't think these women were overwhelmed with empathy for this deranged man or some kind of misplaced compassion, as much as a sick adoration for his infamy and the sensational attention that his crimes attracted, like a form of high social status compared to the average boring male who abides by the law and has respect for other people. It's like the bad boy trope taken to the extreme. It goes way beyond having confidence and a charming persona.
    I think I'm more attracted to villains sometimes because they tend to be written as Thinkers, whereas heroes are usually written as Feelers. This makes sense when you consider that storytelling professions are probably very feeler dominated.

    Selfless behavior and doing good is usually portrayed as somehow being opposed to logic. The heroes are idealistic, and the villains are usually cynical.

    We have fuckloads of evil mad scientists in fiction, and very little in the way of evil mad artists, despite that being the case with one of the greatest real life villains.

    When I do see a hero that strikes me as a very obvious thinker, though, I gravitate towards them.

    Would you say my conception of villains generally being thinkers is accurate? I wonder if this is just some bullshit I whipped up, or if there is actually something here.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  3. #13
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Jesus Christ, Super Star

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    do heroes only exist in imagination or popular culture or not?
    Jesus is the archetype for all super heroes.

    Like Jesus, super heroes have humble beginnings, have super powers like Jesus, have come to save us like Jesus, and overcome death like Jesus. And super heroes seem strangely asexual like Jesus. And like Jesus, they dominate our culture.

    Most little boys want to be a super hero, and Thomas a Kempis was kind enough to write, "The Imitation of Christ", for all of us who want imitate the super hero, Jesus.

    And we only need to see the popular musical, "Jesus Christ, Super Star", to discover the archetype for our super heroes.

  4. #14
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Jesus is the archetype for all super heroes.

    Like Jesus, super heroes have humble beginnings, have super powers like Jesus, have come to save us like Jesus, and overcome death like Jesus. And super heroes seem strangely asexual like Jesus. And like Jesus, they dominate our culture.

    Most little boys want to be a super hero, and Thomas a Kempis was kind enough to write, "The Imitation of Christ", for all of us who want imitate the super hero, Jesus.
    Actually, there's truth to this.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  5. #15
    Epiphany
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I think I'm more attracted to villains sometimes because they tend to be written as Thinkers, whereas heroes are usually written as Feelers. This makes sense when you consider that storytelling professions are probably very feeler dominated.

    Selfless behavior and doing good is usually portrayed as somehow being opposed to logic. The heroes are idealistic, and the villains are usually cynical.

    We have fuckloads of evil mad scientists in fiction, and very little in the way of evil mad artists, despite that being the case with one of the greatest real life villains.

    When I do see a hero that strikes me as a very obvious thinker, though, I gravitate towards them.

    Would you say my conception of villains generally being thinkers is accurate? I wonder if this is just some bullshit I whipped up, or if there is actually something here.
    I've never gotten this impression that selfless behavior and doing good is somehow opposed to logic. Where did you get that idea from? Also, just because someone has certain ideals, it doesn't necessarily make them an idealist in terms of typology. Plenty of feelers are cynical, as well.

    Yes, the evil genius or scientist is a common caricature. I usually avoid trying to type fictional characters, but I don't think heroes are commonly feelers as opposed to villains being thinkers. I really don't see much of a correlation there at all. Plenty of feelers have twisted, selfish ideals that manifest in a villainous way. Plenty of heroes are rational and logical and live according to a moral code of conduct.

  6. #16
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    I've never gotten this impression that selfless behavior and doing good is somehow opposed to logic. Where did you get that idea from? Also, just because someone has certain ideals, it doesn't necessarily make them an idealist in terms of typology. Plenty of feelers are cynical, as well.
    Oh, in the real world, certainly. I'm talking about in fiction though. I get the sense we aren't still talking about that.
    Yes, the evil genius or scientist is a common caricature. I usually avoid trying to type fictional characters, but I don't think heroes are commonly feelers as opposed to villains being thinkers. I really don't see much of a correlation there at all. Plenty of feelers have twisted, selfish ideals that manifest in a villainous way. Plenty of heroes are rational and logical and live according to a moral code of conduct.
    Maybe you're right, and I'm just coming up with some bullshit inferior Fe special snowflake crap.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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  7. #17
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    I usually avoid trying to type fictional characters, but I don't think heroes are commonly feelers as opposed to villains being thinkers. I really don't see much of a correlation there at all. Plenty of feelers have twisted, selfish ideals that manifest in a villainous way. Plenty of heroes are rational and logical and live according to a moral code of conduct.
    I agree with you that in reality, heroes and villains can't be categorized as feelers and thinkers. But it does seem to often be the case in books, doesn't it? Many heroic characters (not all of them) do seem to be Fs...I'm guessing Cinderella probably wasn't a T.

    Also, you were in the Marines?! And I never knew this?! Introverts. They keep so much close to the chest.

  8. #18
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Aung San Suu Kyi is a despicable terrorist, though. And say what you want about the Burmese dictatorship, they're better for Burma than the British overlords. They are at least Burmese. Therefore, they should be supported at whatever cost.

    If Suu Kyi cares about freedom so much, why does she never criticize the British for ruling over them?
    I'm not sure irony and non-sequiturs really go together....

    Anyway, after what Quesada did to him, I wouldn't want to be Spiderman, either.

  9. #19
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    I'm not sure irony and non-sequiturs really go together....

    Anyway, after what Quesada did to him, I wouldn't want to be Spiderman, either.
    I have the same response to both:

    [
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  10. #20
    Epiphany
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Oh, in the real world, certainly. I'm talking about in fiction though. I get the sense we aren't still talking about that.


    Maybe you're right, and I'm just coming up with some bullshit inferior Fe special snowflake crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    I agree with you that in reality, heroes and villains can't be categorized as feelers and thinkers. But it does seem to often be the case in books, doesn't it? Many heroic characters (not all of them) do seem to be Fs...I'm guessing Cinderella probably wasn't a T.
    Damnit! I just typed out a reply that got deleted. In short, I'm not well-versed enough in superhero lore or fairytales...or even mbti really...to come to any conclusions and discern type patterns in fictional characters. But from what I know about typology, I don't really see any correlation between T/F and heroism/villainy, in general.

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