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  1. #81
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Is there a difference between what will be covered by the upcoming plan and the one that is currently available? Deductibles, preventive care, and co-pays, etc?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #82
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    That's been the experience in six states that have already imposed ObamaCare-style market reforms — known as "guaranteed issue" and "community rating." These rules prevent insurers from denying coverage or charging more to people who are sick. But they can easily backfire.
    Lousy sick people. Why can't they just climb on an iceberg and float away into the ocean. It works for the Eskimos.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  3. #83
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Lousy sick people. Why can't they just climb on an iceberg and float away into the ocean. It works for the Eskimos.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  4. #84
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    Yes, I realize there are no icebergs where you live. But whining about it won't get you anywhere. Search within yourself for that rugged individualism and raise yourself by the bootstraps.

    May I suggest styrofoam?
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  5. #85
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    May I suggest styrofoam?
    See, it's people like you indirectly contributing to the real problem:



    *rallies environmental protesters*
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  6. #86
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Anyway, as I mentioned in the other thread, I've read estimates that insurance will go up to $570/mo in my state due to ACA and that I don't mind in the least paying the $30 extra/mo if it means that uninsured folks will have better access to healthcare. If, as you say, those that make less than 400% of the federal poverty line with get subsidies, then it's possible we could end up paying less than we do now, since we've never made it to 200% of the federal poverty line for our family size and are unlikely, even after the kids are grown, to make it to 400%. If we do, I think that the increase in income would offset the expense of insurance fairly well because we'd probably think we were fricking rich, owning, in part, to living in a depressed area with fairly low cost of living.

    But how much extra would I be willing to pay to help make sure nobody had to go without healthcare in this country? In our current situation (150-200% of the fed. pov. line for fam sz) . . . $100/mo. If it was really good coverage (not a lot of out-of-pocket expenses) for everyone, including us, another $50-100. Maybe more because then we wouldn't also need the $2-3K/year we put in our medical savings to make sure we can afford to use the insurance we're paying for.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #87

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    National Health Service, much better idea

  8. #88
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Why do you romanticize the free-market ideology, it is just one way of setting up a capitalist politico-economic infrastructure with its own distinctive advantages and disadvantages. Markets work out best for people who are capable of making significant economic contributions for society, but less so for the less capable. In short, a market-oriented infrastructure is the most likely to benefit members of the upper-middle socio-economic class and above, however, such a society would offer rather limited opportunities to the ordinary civilians and the under-privileged. Even our American society heavily relies on social welfare programs to provide for the needs of not only the indigent, but also members of the middle class. If it wasn't for the unemployment benefits, a computer programmer or an accountant would not have the luxury of taking up to six months to find a job in his field of specialization, he'd be pushing carts at Wal-Mart or sweeping the streets. In fact, that's exactly what happened in Bangladesh when the nation reached a 98.5% employment rate in part by cutting back social welfare benefits and implementing radical market-oriented reforms. According to the market-fundamentalist doctrine, they should have achieved enormous growth because economic competition must bring out the best in the work-force, but what they ended up with instead was a massive brain-waste where professionals enjoyed only scarce opportunities to remain employed in their field of specialization.

    Do me a favor and look into Jeffrey Sachs End of Poverty, Ha Joon Chang's 23 things they don't tell you about capitalism and Paul Collier's the Bottom billion and learn about all of the wonders that market-reforms are doing across the world. The tenets of market-fundamentalism have been applied in nearly every severely under-developed country and they have failed miserably and today's most developed economies such as the U.S, Australia and South Korea achieved growth by striking a proper balance between openness to trade and protection of their economies (see Chang's book).

    You want a "pure laissez-faire society"? Be careful what you wish for.
    You need to read what I wrote instead of quoting out of context.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #89
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Anyway, as I mentioned in the other thread, I've read estimates that insurance will go up to $570/mo in my state due to ACA and that I don't mind in the least paying the $30 extra/mo if it means that uninsured folks will have better access to healthcare.
    Excluding my uninsured wife, who will be denied better access to healthcare due to a pre-existing health condition and her lifestyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    If, as you say, those that make less than 400% of the federal poverty line with get subsidies, then it's possible we could end up paying less than we do now, since we've never made it to 200% of the federal poverty line for our family size and are unlikely, even after the kids are grown, to make it to 400%. If we do, I think that the increase in income would offset the expense of insurance fairly well because we'd probably think we were fricking rich, owning, in part, to living in a depressed area with fairly low cost of living.

    But how much extra would I be willing to pay to help make sure nobody had to go without healthcare in this country? In our current situation (150-200% of the fed. pov. line for fam sz) . . . $100/mo. If it was really good coverage (not a lot of out-of-pocket expenses) for everyone, including us, another $50-100. Maybe more because then we wouldn't also need the $2-3K/year we put in our medical savings to make sure we can afford to use the insurance we're paying for.
    But who's going without healthcare in this country? As it is right now, any indigent person can walk into an ER, get free medical service, and leave without ever having to pay a dime.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #90
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    http://news.investors.com/politics/0...re-mandate.htm
    Local Governments Reeling Under ObamaCare Costs

    'When Regal Entertainment Group (RGC) in April blamed ObamaCare for the fact that it was cutting some of its workers' hours, backers of the law mounted a furious backlash against the theater chain, among other things filling its Facebook page with boycott threats. "Greed and selfishness make me sick," one of them said.'

    Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/politics/0...#ixzz2bCSrqDJq
    Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

    So the best they can do is hurl epithets about "greed" at businesses trying to survive during a recession period under the burden of new, expensive, Draconian laws designed to help the "uninsured."

    Obey Obama - or you will be penalized.

    Where's the greed? Is it about money, or political power?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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