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  1. #41
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    You've got to ask yourself why medical insurance is so expensive now, and why medical care is so expensive. Wasn't it just two years ago that an MRI cost $750? Now it costs $2500.

    What's changed? Corporate greed? But isn't that always the same?
    Clearly you have never lived outside of America, and you don't make an effort to listen to sources outside of the American mainstream media bubble.

    You sound like you're from the cult of plug-my-ears, dude. There are number of awesome things about the US of A, and that's why I moved here, for the awesomeness.

    But no, corporate greed has not always been this way. You need to start listening to global politics and news sources with reporters who aren't paid by the mainstream American media owners, so you can lose the cult-view. There's a reason why all the non-Americans on the board are all collectively ing about your health care system, etc.

    Recommendations:
    Al Jazeera (award-winning global reporting), Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine, etc.


    The key word here is distribution. America until the Reagan era used to be sweet. But then what happened was, basically, government deregulation let all the heavyweight corporations bring figurative guns to figurative knife fights. Then it becomes David v. Goliath, with Goliath having all sorts of fancy new fighterjet tech and David is stuck with his stones.

    This happened with the banks (see chart below), and it also happened with the media. There are like, 3 or 4 people who own the entire American media system. No exaggeration.

    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  2. #42
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    A lot of things have changed. During the Regan administration and since, there has been a lot of deregulation and union busting. There is virtually no regulation on the pricing of medical procedures. I couldn't tell you if it's because it was deregulated or it just hadn't occurred to people to try to make loads of money off of sick people up to that point. What I'm pretty sure about is that they regulate these things in most developed countries and that they negotiate with pharmaceutical companies for reasonable prices. We don't do a lot of that here, other than the VA as far as I know.
    Don't hospitals have to pay insurance too? Doctor offices have to pay insurance. Dentists have to pay insurance. Why? Because legally it's possible to sue someone for astronomical amounts of money, and win. And they have won.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/equif...ry?id=19803421
    "Jury Awards $18.6M For Equifax Credit Report Mix-up"

    Lawyers support this because it makes them richer than Midas.

    Insurance companies are just trying to stay in business while having to obey a zillion laws regulating their every move. This drives up insurance rates. Lack of competition also drives up insurance rates, which is what happens when the gubmint prevents certain companies from engaging in interstate competition with other companies.

    Medical centers then pass the expense onto their customers, who often pass the expense on to their medical insurance. Medical insurance rates then go up.

    Laws that prevent medical insurance from denying payouts to patients with pre-existing conditions also cause insurance rates to go up, because that puts a further financial burden on the insurance company. Denying payouts to patients with pre-existing conditions is not greed, it serves to keep insurance rates affordable and competitive.

    And now you're asking for more regulations, and blaming Reagan's deregulation of industry.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #43
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Clearly you have never lived outside of America, and you don't make an effort to listen to sources outside of the American mainstream media bubble.

    You sound like you're from the cult of plug-my-ears, dude. There are number of awesome things about the US of A, and that's why I moved here, for the awesomeness.

    But no, corporate greed has not always been this way. You need to start listening to global politics and news sources with reporters who aren't paid by the mainstream American media owners, so you can lose the cult-view. There's a reason why all the non-Americans on the board are all collectively ing about your health care system, etc.

    Recommendations:
    Al Jazeera (award-winning global reporting), Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine, etc.
    That is all subjective. Don't you think I am ing about it too? But only because things have gone so far downhill in the last 40 years. And why is this? Is it the natural economic regression caused by narrow-minded corporate greed?

    If I lived with national health care coverage all my life, I'd be thinking the same thing, but only because I wouldn't know any different.

    But I have known existence without socialized medical insurance plans. And it wasn't bad - until the gubmint came along and screwed everything up.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #44
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Hey, anybody got a link to a simple, fact based assessment of what's new in the legislation aka Obamacare?
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Hey, anybody got a link to a simple, fact based assessment of what's new in the legislation aka Obamacare?
    I can tell you, there is a lot of financially strangling people into submitting to the federal plan.
    http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/07/...nge-explained/

    "nearly two-thirds of uninsured Americans say they haven't decided whether or not they'll buy health insurance by the Jan. 1 deadline (even though they'll have to pay a penalty if they don't)."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #46
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    In part probably because the population is aging and that means insurance companies are having to pay more to their policy-holders. They had a pretty easy ride with the baby boomers up until recently.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Ok in fairness now one of the people fighting amicably disagreeing with you give me a link too.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    My ISFP wife voted for Obama both times. But now that she's read more about Obama's "affordable health care" on internet news sites (such as our local news), she wants to move to Switzerland and get the hell out of the US!
    It seems like a big decision to make on the basis of what's reported by internet news sites, a big decision to make per se, the differences I have with the political consensus in the UK means I pretty much should have relocated years and years ago. Although its hard to say were to.

    Anyway, good luck guys for the move, I hope its stress free and I hear a lot of good things about the Swiss and living there. Hope they are all true and you guys are well.

  9. #49
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Don't hospitals have to pay insurance too? Doctor offices have to pay insurance. Dentists have to pay insurance. Why? Because legally it's possible to sue someone for astronomical amounts of money, and win. And they have won.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/equif...ry?id=19803421
    "Jury Awards $18.6M For Equifax Credit Report Mix-up"

    Lawyers support this because it makes them richer than Midas.

    Insurance companies are just trying to stay in business while having to obey a zillion laws regulating their every move. This drives up insurance rates. Lack of competition also drives up insurance rates, which is what happens when the gubmint prevents certain companies from engaging in interstate competition with other companies.

    Medical centers then pass the expense onto their customers, who often pass the expense on to their medical insurance. Medical insurance rates then go up.

    Laws that prevent medical insurance from denying payouts to patients with pre-existing conditions also cause insurance rates to go up, because that puts a further financial burden on the insurance company. Denying payouts to patients with pre-existing conditions is not greed, it serves to keep insurance rates affordable and competitive.

    And now you're asking for more regulations, and blaming Reagan's deregulation of industry.
    I'm suggesting it's a possibility. Why is medical care cheaper and higher quality in other developed countries? Do they have less regulation than we do? Insurance companies are not, to my knowledge, in danger of going broke. And there is a reason why medical service providers must insure themselves: avoidable medical errors are the eighth leading cause of death in this country.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #50
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I'm suggesting it's a possibility. Why is medical care cheaper and higher quality in other developed countries? Do they have less regulation than we do? Insurance companies are not, to my knowledge, in danger of going broke. And there is a reason why medical service providers must insure themselves: avoidable medical errors are the eighth leading cause of death in this country.
    Whether the errors are avoidable or unavoidable, I'm talking about the financial burden created by these ridiculous million-dollar lawsuits.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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