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  1. #211
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Your first sentence doesn't even apply here. EVERYBODY CAN get medical care when they need it. It's called an ER, a primary health facility, or something along those lines.
    Well, they can get emergency care, but not ongoing care and it is about the least cost-effective way to go about it. And they then often do not pay the bill for their care. Guess who pays their bills? People who are paying for insurance and taxpayers.

    I think it might be better if people were required to pay for insurance based on what they can afford rather than pay nothing at all and get poor care in the bargain. If I'm going to be paying for their care anyway, I'd like them to get the best possible care for my money, rather than the least the hospital can do to keep from getting sued.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #212
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Well, they can get emergency care, but not ongoing care and it is about the least cost-effective way to go about it. And they then often do not pay the bill for their care. Guess who pays their bills? People who are paying for insurance and taxpayers.

    I think it might be better if people were required to pay for insurance based on what they can afford rather than pay nothing at all and get poor care in the bargain. If I'm going to be paying for their care anyway, I'd like them to get the best possible care for my money, rather than the least the hospital can do to keep from getting sued.
    Will ACA raise the over-all cost of heatlhcare, or lower it? I'm just talking about the fees charged by hospitals and clinics.

    If you say you don't know, then what has happened in other countries with similar kinds of health care setups? What happened in Massachusetts?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massach...th_care_reform
    the researchers explain that health costs continued to go up over the period in question, and their overall findings are “incompatible with claims that health reform has cut medical bankruptcy filings significantly.”

    Do your homework so I don't have to do it for you.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #213
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Will ACA raise the over-all cost of heatlhcare, or lower it? I'm just talking about the fees charged by hospitals and clinics.

    If you say you don't know, then what has happened in other countries with similar kinds of health care setups? What happened in Massachusetts?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massach...th_care_reform
    the researchers explain that health costs continued to go up over the period in question, and their overall findings are “incompatible with claims that health reform has cut medical bankruptcy filings significantly.”

    Do your homework so I don't have to do it for you.
    Well that's a little rude and bossy, not to mention unjustifiably superior. I don't think you've actually looked into this as much as I have. You are, after all, the one who started this thread, the premise of which is fairly uninformed and silly. You're going to have to up your game beyond wiki, fox news, and insulting language if you want to be credible on this subject. If that's all you're going to bring, I don't see much point in engaging you.

    Romneycare, if I understand correctly, is essentially the same thing as Obamacare and both suck for the same reasons. They are profit-based and there is no negotiation of fees. Other developed nations have a variety of ways of covering all of their citizens and all of them spend less than we do. It can be done, but it won't be done if we insist on keeping a system in which a minority of people are making loads of money off of necessary services. As long is there is no accountability for the folks running things, prices could very well go up.

    Have you seen comparisons of what the same procedures cost in the US compared to other developed countries? It's pretty crazy. Prices *ought* to go down the more people we have buying insurance (they pay into the system and have access to preventive care), even if they can't pay full-freight, but those savings are at least as likely to go into shareholder and CEO pockets as they are to reduce our premiums.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #214
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Well that's a little rude and bossy, not to mention unjustifiably superior. I don't think you've actually looked into this as much as I have. You are, after all, the one who started this thread, the premise of which is fairly uninformed and silly. You're going to have to up your game beyond wiki, fox news,
    Whoops, you blew it. I got most of my information from TheGuardian or Telegraph.

    The US is not bankrupt yet. If you want to bankrupt a country with your altruistic schemes, no matter how you rationalize them, move to New Zealand or something.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #215
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Whoops, you blew it. I got most of my information from TheGuardian or Telegraph.

    The US is not bankrupt yet. If you want to bankrupt a country with your altruistic schemes, no matter how you rationalize them, move to New Zealand or something.
    

    Well now you've gone and hurt my feelings, calling me altruistic! Live long and prosper!
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #216
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    People don't look at history which shows that when gobument gets involved in the free market, prices go up. This requires more taxes to pay for the same services, or the services begin to collapse in quality to a point where it can be afforded. It doesn't matter which country you're trying to socialize, and in this case the country you're trying to socialize is already 17 trillion dollars in debt under the most spend-happy leadership in the history of the world.

    “But I would be dishonest if I didn't say that it would be a whole lot easier to govern if I had Nancy Pelosi as Speaker.”
    YOUR TRANSLATOR: "It would be a lot easier to get my way if only we were more like China."

    One-party rule is another goal of the current administration, which believes, not in debate, but in dictatorship.

    “But I would be dishonest if I didn't say that it would be a whole lot easier to govern if I had Nancy Pelosi as Speaker.”


    http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/sh...re-like-the-us
    China doesn't have to invade the US, the US will give in slowly and willingly without any bloodshed - at least, not literal bloodshed.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #217
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    So you believe that people should have to pay taxes to take care of their neighbors.

    Charity is moral. Stealing is not.
    There was a time when people paid 75% of their income to keep national interest from spiraling out.

    Think of it as a way to keep your community from getting worse, and the national community at large, in staying healthy. The more the people are able to have shelter, food, and be healthy, the less people are willing to do bad things because they have their necessities.

    Honestly, I don't like this system, I'd rather have a system that is more in line with the Nordic countries, but you'd more than freak if that were to happen. I think the democrats wanted to pass something like the Nordic countries before they passed the ACA, but because it was more than likely not going to pass, they had to rearrange to something like the republicans. Hell, the biggest benefactors are the insurance companies, because now, people are forced to buy insurance.

    I would move to Sweden in a heartbeat if it was that easy for me to do so.

  8. #218
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    There was a time when people paid 75% of their income to keep national interest from spiraling out.

    Think of it as a way to keep your community from getting worse, and the national community at large, in staying healthy. The more the people are able to have shelter, food, and be healthy, the less people are willing to do bad things because they have their necessities.

    Honestly, I don't like this system, I'd rather have a system that is more in line with the Nordic countries, but you'd more than freak if that were to happen. I think the democrats wanted to pass something like the Nordic countries before they passed the ACA, but because it was more than likely not going to pass, they had to rearrange to something like the republicans. Hell, the biggest benefactors are the insurance companies, because now, people are forced to buy insurance.

    I would move to Sweden in a heartbeat if it was that easy for me to do so.
    That is a very different culture from that of the US, and believe it or not, the US has a primary culture.

    Sweden is BORING. The people are BORING. The culture is BORING. Most people there believe in SAMENESS.

    ACA is only a foot in the door.

    Insurance companies are run by short-range thinkers. They may derive immediate benefits from ACA if they restructure their resources. But in the long run, it's a losing game.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #219
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "The problem is that they need to force everyone in america to get the government health insurance. If they don't, start putting them in jail or at hard physical labor, then they would see enrolment numbers go up."

    Indeed, that's what all gobmint boils down to.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #220

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    I hope to move to Canada one day, but not because of Obamacare.

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