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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Hey, I'm not the one wanting to kick people off. My son (15 y/o) is medically approved for disability due to autism (he doesn't get it because we make too much money - I thought it was worth a try to apply because DB said a bunch of middle class people were getting it and we're at 130-150% of the poverty line) and with enough support, I have no doubt he could work, but not a lot of employers are in a hurry to offer that kind of support (unless they are like Goodwill, who pays disabled people less than minimum wage) when there are college graduates willing to work low-wage jobs because there aren't enough jobs.

    But before labor unions, little kids worked in factories and mines and before the industrial revolution, people made lace and stuff at home, so it's conceivably possible a lot of people on disability now could do some kind of work. It's just really not practical or profitable. I don't think that's a reasonable standard, but who knows what people that are up in arms about somebody getting $700 a month might think is reasonable?
    The government does not owe those who can't find a job a living.

    It does however have a duty to create the business environment most likely to maximize employment.

  2. #202
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The government does not owe those who can't find a job a living.
    That's an opinion that reflects the values of some people and not the values of others. I believe society has an obligation to care for the the young, the old, the sick, and the poor, especially a society that wants to call itself Christian. I don't believe there is a moral or biblical prohibition against the government being society's mechanism for that. Countries that make that a priority seem to have better outcomes in terms of quality of life for their citizens, which is, I think, one of the most important responsibilities of government.

    But you have changed your wording from "work requirements" to "people who can't find a job." So do you believe that people who cannot find a job (not won't try to find a job, but can't find one) should receive no help from the government? I believe people ought to contribute what they can, but I do not believe anyone ought to be hungry or homeless or sick due to circumstances that are outside of their control, like not being able to find a private sector job. Maybe if we were a poor country with no resources it could not be helped, but we are a wealthy country.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit
    It does however have a duty to create the business environment most likely to maximize employment.
    I don't disagree with that being a duty, but I don't believe it is the first duty or that the way to do that is by little or no regulation. It doesn't appear to be working for us, at least not for our citizens.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The government does not owe those who can't find a job a living.
    With our entire capital coming from employment of all of our citizens.. I'd say it is in the government's best interest to make that a priority actually. (To get its citizens a job they can live off of, that is.)
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  4. #204
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "More Americans in 3 states alone have had their insurance canceled under Obamacare than have signed up for Obamacare in all 50."

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...hange-account/
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  5. #205
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "In an age of fiscal peril at the federal level, one has to wonder if a possible future tweak to the ACA would loosen the rules on subsidies, let the poor performing public exchanges close down, and allow private exchanges to fill the gap at a lower price to taxpayers. Let’s hope our country doesn’t follow the sad history of public education in which bad public institutions linger for decades, instead of allowing the best models to float to the top."
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...ng-outsourced/

    Since when has gubumint ever used common sense? It uses just the opposite - non-sense.
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  6. #206
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    The only thing worse than ACA is what we had before.
    So far, the numbers suggest otherwise: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/24/he...ollment-rates/

  7. #207
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    It's been running fully for less than a month, so I consider the jury still out. They still need to get the bugs worked out of the website. Rome wasn't built in a day. Also, profitable companies using ACA as an excuse to drop employees' and/or their families' coverage does not, IMO, implicate ACA.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #208
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    It's been running fully for less than a month, so I consider the jury still out. They still need to get the bugs worked out of the website. Rome wasn't built in a day. Also, profitable companies using ACA as an excuse to drop employees' and/or their families' coverage does not, IMO, implicate ACA.
    Obama is trying to force Americans to buy a product they don't want, for a price they can't afford, at a website they can't access.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Obama is trying to force Americans to buy a product they don't want, for a price they can't afford, at a website they can't access.
    I think most people do want to be able to get medical care when they need it. Nobody wants to buy insurance, unless they are going to commit insurance fraud. Whether or not it will be affordable remains to be seen. Subsidies based on income are being offered for folks using the exchanges if I'm not mistaken. The website is a total mess. Obama, of all people, should have known that was important.

    I'd prefer a single-payer system similar to Medicare for everyone, but it's hard to get that kind of thing past some of the lobbies.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #210
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I think most people do want to be able to get medical care when they need it. Nobody wants to buy insurance, unless they are going to commit insurance fraud. Whether or not it will be affordable remains to be seen. Subsidies based on income are being offered for folks using the exchanges if I'm not mistaken. The website is a total mess. Obama, of all people, should have known that was important.

    I'd prefer a single-payer system similar to Medicare for everyone, but it's hard to get that kind of thing past some of the lobbies.
    Your first sentence doesn't even apply here. EVERYBODY CAN get medical care when they need it. It's called an ER, a primary health facility, or something along those lines.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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