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  1. #31
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Manning gets 35 years and people want to talk about his/her MBTI type? /facepalm

    Americans are hopeless.
    mm i'm not american and...yeah, for me it's interesting, because i'm interested in the human person behind the events, i'm interested in the motivations and even more so now with the revelation that she wants to be addressed as a woman. the same discussion is going on at the edward snowden thread so what's the problem? The whole point of this thread is discussing if she's a hero or a traitor and thus motivation, type, enneagram, whatever, i think they're relevant.

  2. #32
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Read through the first chat log. Manning looks to be a mess. Only 22 years old, though, and having made a stupid mistake by joining the military, and then basically waiting to be discharged because of gender identity disorder that he told his army shrink about, and having a pretty messed up childhood underneath all that.

    There's a lot of desperation in the style of contact -- putting way too much out there to a complete stranger, looking for affirmation or connection. (You can see Adrian basically NOT putting much in return out there. In fact, he's even trying to feel things out to make sure Manning's not a plant or false lead or psycho.)

    What a mess.

    Was Adrian telling the truth about having a MTF ex?
    Heh, today's obviously been slow b/c I'm like 2/3rds through that....... Yeah, not getting even the slightest hint of SJ-ness out of that person, sounds extremely INFP to me.
    intp | type 9w1 sp/sx/so

  3. #33
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Why did he leak so MUCH information? If his purpose was to unveil abuses of power so they can be made aware and prevented, why not do it anonymously and why not select the relevant information?

    He gave out information that probably has been used to hurt innocent people. It's strange and makes him sound like he has a vendetta. And personally, I think it sucks that he's transsexual and used that as an excuse to be a shitbag, since I've identified as one for awhile, but can't really do much about it (it's expensive as hell and it's easier to find peace as you are than drive myself crazy over it)

  4. #34
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    All the celebrity whistleblowers did not do it for money, or for a foreign power, or even for ideology. They did it to serve liberal democracy.

    And yet how they are hated by those in power, because the purpose of liberal democracy is the limitation of power.

  5. #35
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    All the celebrity whistleblowers did not do it for money, or for a foreign power, or even for ideology. They did it to serve liberal democracy.

    And yet how they are hated by those in power, because the purpose of liberal democracy is the limitation of power.
    I finally agree with something you've written. I knew it would happen someday.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  6. #36
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I finally agree with something you've written. I knew it would happen someday.
    In a way there is no need to agree with me. I think Ivy put it well when she said I play tennis.

    So the aim is to return the ball over the net and in. This means we return the post with a reply, and it is in if it is polite.

    Many return the ball but it is out by an insult.

    So we might say the aim is to keep the conversation going. So each post should encourage a creative reply, and a polite creative reply at that.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    Why did he leak so MUCH information? If his purpose was to unveil abuses of power so they can be made aware and prevented, why not do it anonymously and why not select the relevant information?

    He gave out information that probably has been used to hurt innocent people. It's strange and makes him sound like he has a vendetta. And personally, I think it sucks that he's transsexual and used that as an excuse to be a shitbag, since I've identified as one for awhile, but can't really do much about it (it's expensive as hell and it's easier to find peace as you are than drive myself crazy over it)
    Probably has been used to hurt innocent people? The government tried like crazy during the trial to show that Manning's actions had harmed someone, anyone. They couldn't find a single person, not one, who had been harmed by what he revealed. And believe me, if they could have found someone, they would have mentioned it. They wanted to him to get 100+ years in prison.

    Don't believe the government line about these leaks causing harm to the nation. They haven't. The reason people like Snowden and Manning have been pursued and prosecuted is because they embarrassed government officials. That is their only crime. Now the UK government has been harassing Glenn Greenwald and his partner. The US and the UK are out of control. The governments of both of these countries make me sick.

    otQcAz9.jpgotQcAz9.jpg
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #38
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Skimming back through the thread again, everything I read today on my own you've already said.
    What were you expecting from this thread that you didn't already say?
    So of course conversation went elsewhere.

    It's an entire clusterfuck. Lamo's claiming to be in danger, Greenwald's claiming to be in danger, Manning's going to jail. According to the chat transcripts, Lamo was suprised Manning actually had TS clearance... and Manning was early 20's at the time and under horrible stress and said the background checks were jokes, the gov didn't give a crap about proper screening because they wanted to ship as many people as possible over there. Seriously, it's like everyone's got mud on their faces.

    Probably the worst, of course, is that the US Gov is the biggest gorilla on the playground, so it's basically gotten what it wanted out of the matter and everyone else is still collateral damage even if they were all still playing some level of game.
    Fuck the UK government, too, for holding Glenn Greenwald's partner for 9 hours under their "Terrorism Act" despite the fact that the guy is not a terrorist. The only thing he was "guilty" of was aiding a journalist.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #39
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Fuck the UK government, too, for holding Glenn Greenwald's partner for 9 hours under their "Terrorism Act" despite the fact that the guy is not a terrorist. The only thing he was "guilty" of was aiding a journalist.
    Yeah, I saw you allude to that a little bit ago but hadn't yet run across that news clip. Probably will at some point. I did finally read Greenwald's article about Lamo and the whole affair.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #40
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    For people wondering if Manning's sentence was too harsh or too lenient, I suggest you watch this video. Keep in mind that Manning released this information to the American people. He was not spying for another nation, like Russia. He did not receive any money for what he did. It was done purely as a matter of conscience. The prosecution even admitted this during the trial.

    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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