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  1. #11
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    I found that video disgusting.

    Upon further research, it's not irrelevant to point out that the group was not entirely unarmed - the photographers are highlighted but the guy with the RPG and the AK aren't. I thought that was unnecessarily deceptive.

    Because regardless, I still find it disgusting.
    I agree, it was a bit deceptive. However, our troops are still misidentifying cameras as weapons. How many other people have they killed because of other misidentifications? Also, those people had just as much of a right to be armed as Americans. It would be hypocritical for Americans to complain about someone in their own country being armed given our second amendment.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #12
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I agree, it was a bit deceptive. However, our troops are still misidentifying cameras as weapons. How many other people have they killed because of other misidentifications? Also, those people had just as much of a right to be armed as Americans. It would be hypocritical for Americans to complain about someone in their own country being armed given our second amendment.
    I agree that the blatant misidentification of 'five guys with AKs' is a serious issue. And I understand that to some degree when you're dealing with something hostile on a regular basis that it becomes sort of normal, but the joking around and casual, seemingly unfocused nature in conduct seems extremely inappropriate. Firing on the van under the rationale that they were "collecting weapons" as they were gathering bodies and wounded seems...suspect. Waiting for the wounded guy, crawling, not an apparent threat to anyone, to pick up a weapon so they could finish him off seems... It's war, but that doesn't seem right.

    I'm not sure if I follow on the 2nd ammendment. Constitution aside, I believe people should be able to form militias (even in times of war) to protect themselves. That said, I don't think it would be unreasonable to guess that these people were in fact enemy combatants and not the friendly local neighborhood watch. I don't know what happened in the days and hours proceeding these events.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    I agree that the blatant misidentification of 'five guys with AKs' is a serious issue. And I understand that to some degree when you're dealing with something hostile on a regular basis that it becomes sort of normal, but the joking around and casual, seemingly unfocused nature in conduct seems extremely inappropriate. Firing on the van under the rationale that they were "collecting weapons" as they were gathering bodies and wounded seems...suspect. Waiting for the wounded guy, crawling, not an apparent threat to anyone, to pick up a weapon so they could finish him off seems... It's war, but that doesn't seem right.

    I'm not sure if I follow on the 2nd ammendment. Constitution aside, I believe people should be able to form militias (even in times of war) to protect themselves. That said, I don't think it would be unreasonable to guess that these people were in fact enemy combatants and not the friendly local neighborhood watch. I don't know what happened in the days and hours proceeding these events.
    I imagine some Americans would say "look, they have weapons, that means they're all guilty, this video is propaganda".
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #14
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    We probably won't ever know for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was just symbolic. They have more than enough guilty charges to put him away for life without that charge.

    The thing about the investigative journalism is, there have already been threats made by the mainstream media and government officials against Glenn Greenwald for his part in the Edward Snowden leak. Here's a link to something Peter King said:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...n-the-republic

    Not only that, but the US government has been pursuing Julian Assange for years. And while he is not employed by a "government approved media outlet", his function was the same, to inform the public. This is all headed in a really bad direction.
    Yeah, I've been reading a lot of it. Threats, smear campaigns, traitor, you name it, someone in Congress or the Media has said it and I've read about it. They even tried to smear his identity by looking into his past life... just like they did with Snowden (and Manning.) It's really how desperate things seem to be.

    Real investigative journalism carries its risk, especially in this day and age, I consider them to be the counterparts of so called "muckrakers" of the early 20th century. In elementary journalism, these days, you learn to not speak ill of the very same people who give you easy money. So trying to investigate anything of this magnitude is pretty much unheard of in this day and age of journalists.

    There does seem to be backups if anything were to happen to Snowden, I don't know about Greenwald, but I do agree with you that there lives have essentially changed.

    Bradley leaked a lot of stuff, but here's a video of US troops shooting some people, then shooting the first responders. Killing the first responders is a war crime. You cannot do that! Our government is sick.

    Do you know that more and more of our planes are starting to be remote controlled? While the Sequester is happening, one part that is the least likely to trim are the unmanned drones and remote controlled planes.

    Also, this thing, I don't know what to make of it. "Like a game" is a bit surreal.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...perator-artist

  5. #15
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I imagine some Americans would say "look, they have weapons, that means they're all guilty, this video is propaganda".
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  6. #16
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    I am glad he was found guilty at least of espionage. I hate uneducated people who join the military (of course this is the gov't's fault) and decide it's a fabulous revolutionary idea...to enable the enemy. Derp.

    Who can we turn to and point to and complain for our uneducated youth, though? My grandfather lied to join the Navy at 16 (ah WWII) and was more intellectual than Manning and Snowden put together.

    My grandfather thought they could use someone like me, but I wasn't having it.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Yeah, I've been reading a lot of it. Threats, smear campaigns, traitor, you name it, someone in Congress or the Media has said it and I've read about it. They even tried to smear his identity by looking into his past life... just like they did with Snowden (and Manning.) It's really how desperate things seem to be.

    Real investigative journalism carries its risk, especially in this day and age, I consider them to be the counterparts of so called "muckrakers" of the early 20th century. In elementary journalism, these days, you learn to not speak ill of the very same people who give you easy money. So trying to investigate anything of this magnitude is pretty much unheard of in this day and age of journalists.

    There does seem to be backups if anything were to happen to Snowden, I don't know about Greenwald, but I do agree with you that there lives have essentially changed.



    Do you know that more and more of our planes are starting to be remote controlled? While the Sequester is happening, one part that is the least likely to trim are the unmanned drones and remote controlled planes.

    Also, this thing, I don't know what to make of it. "Like a game" is a bit surreal.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...perator-artist
    Snowden and Manning, are for all practical concerns, enabling enemies.

    In my book that makes them fucking retards. Or traitors.

    I'm not sure why people are making heroes out of them, but I'm not sure if this is a liberal irrational Islam love thing or what kind of stupidity.

    Perhaps just "it looks good if I appear very open minded"?

    Sometimes I am so very glad I do not have Fe.

    It ironically in some cases makes me more loyal. Who knew. An Fi practical loyalist. Guess that's Se and Te.

  8. #18
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Enemies?

    You know your war's gone on too long when the enemy has no name.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  9. #19
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Snowden and Manning, are for all practical concerns, enabling enemies.
    Citation needed

    In my book that makes them fucking retards. Or traitors.

    I'm not sure why people are making heroes out of them, but I'm not sure if this is a liberal irrational Islam love thing or what kind of stupidity.

    Perhaps just "it looks good if I appear very open minded"?

    Sometimes I am so very glad I do not have Fe.

    It ironically in some cases makes me more loyal. Who knew. An Fi practical loyalist. Guess that's Se and Te.
    Look, it's clear to everyone here that you hate Edward Snowden because he had a girlfriend who was a stripper and he allegedly (according to you) encouraged her to keep stripping. It's such a big deal to you that you even ranted on the visitor wall on my profile about that. I'm not exactly sure why you hate Bradley Manning so much, unless you're a homophobe too.

    They're heroes because they exposed government corruption at great personal cost. Bradley is likely to spend the rest of his life in prison and Edward gave up a lifestyle that >95% of people on the planet would envy (high paying job in Hawaii). I can't imagine I would have taken that risk if I had been in either of their positions.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #20
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Snowden and Manning, are for all practical concerns, enabling enemies.

    In my book that makes them fucking retards. Or traitors.

    I'm not sure why people are making heroes out of them, but I'm not sure if this is a liberal irrational Islam love thing or what kind of stupidity.

    Perhaps just "it looks good if I appear very open minded"?
    By that logic, it is implying that all Americans are enemies of the state like some of the representatives have blurted out at the beginning of this mess of Snowden? That is a can of worms the state has gotten itself into and should not have gotten into. After all, Americans were also given this information.

    Note the distinction between enabling enemies and informing the public of a state. Both of these people didn't just hand it to another government in secret, that would be the definition of enabling the enemy and becoming a traitor. Is it really traitorous to inform your family, friends, neighborhood, and etc if you really believe they need it?

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