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  1. #31
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    As an off-handed comment, I wonder the restrictions on the facility standards themselves.

    I live in Texas. The abortion thing was largely overshadowed in the media by the Zimmerman trial. A pity since a really awesome filibuster was conducted during it.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  2. #32
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    It seems to me that with most ideological-based law reform in the US, people are more worried about what law will be passed next, rather than the immediate law in question. These sorts of debates are always proxies for wider issues. Americans are terrified of a slippery slope, that, perhaps, aint all that slippery (or steep).

    Not that I necessarily blame them for being paranoid. When these issues are debated so angrily and obsessively by both sides, and the views so dramatically polarised, there's so much force pushing back on every minor change. It can get you worried about where things are going further down the road.

    I just don't think there's as much controversy surrounding issues like abortion in most other western nations. The decisions can be made with a clearer head in a calmer atmosphere.
    Yes, I've said that about the "Socialism!" scares in U.S. discourse about healthcare insurance, too. So many of our objections are based on Slippery Slope Fears, on many political topics--which I don't think are Logical Fallacies necessarily; that depends largely on each situation.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  3. #33
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    I'm actually starting to make peace with the fact that the U.S. is more similar to places like Russia, Israel and China or Iraq than most of Europe.

    Look at our history, folks. Our recent history is pretty wild wooly and classist...very extreme dichotomies between the rich and the poor and "us versus them" mindsets and so forth...that's not very European.

    Most European countries are hundreds if not thousands of years old and are very confident in the fact that they have cohesive, well-behaved and well-socialized societies based in things like Greco-Roman reason and decorum and so forth.

    There's something really violent and primitive about American culture (um hello I live in Los Angeles, supposedly one of the most civilized cities on Earth, and I'm subjected to flyers on light poles about "one time special" indie films about gun militias and gun rights).

    I'm sorry am I in North America or the Middle East?

    I am really starting to just accept it. I am not in England. I am a in wild land where the lowest class has been empowered and money is mistaken for class or education. Annie get your gun.

  4. #34
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    ...money is mistaken for class or education...
    Interesting side-point, I was discussing this with some British guys on another site, and as Americans, we tend to classify "Upper class", "middle class", or "lower class" almost completely on how much money someone makes. "Tell me a person's salary, and I can tell you whether he is upper/middle/lower class", we Americans said. The British crew said, "Social class is more complicated than that... Salary is part of it, but there is more to it."

    And they went on to conclude that just as Race is America's obsession/strange sticking point, Social Class is Britain's obsession/strange sticking point.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Interesting side-point, I was discussing this with some British guys on another site, and as Americans, we tend to classify "Upper class", "middle class", or "lower class" almost completely on how much money someone makes. "Tell me a person's salary, and I can tell you whether he is upper/middle/lower class", we Americans said. The British crew said, "Social class is more complicated than that... Salary is part of it, but there is more to it."

    And they went on to conclude that just as Race is America's obsession/strange sticking point, Social Class is Britain's obsession/strange sticking point.
    Well it's plainly clear that some of the most socially powerful people in the U.S. are butt-fucking ignoramuses.

    That's a side effect of "money is class." Destruction of the environment and having a working class that is not "cared for" by the upper classes (in most societies in Europe with real historical class systems, royalty and aristocracy felt a religious responsibility to the poor, or they treated the people they employed with human dignity, by actually having them LIVE on their property, with housing, food and basic medical care).

    'Merka has this interesting way about it, ya know, that we freed slaves, only to employ people for less than a livable wage and allow them to die in slums. That's an all new low for a supposedly first world nation.

    That's a result of equating money with class or intelligence. It's a very dangerous thing to do. Class should be based on education and social manners if it exists at all.

  6. #36
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    Oh to answer the OP: people here aren't "nuts" they're almost intentionally kept collectively ignorant and stupid.

    I only thank God every day that I had a grandfather who still said "petrol." If not, where would I be, I ask you, voting for Ron Paul and confusing your with you're?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    Fe. Lots and lots of Fe and a few Fi users lighting the matches.
    There are plenty of people in Europe and Canada with Fe, son.

    What do you people not understand about input, experience and education being separate from function preference?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well killing people when they are babies and killing them years later through unemployment and destitution, take your pick apparently.
    Said the Catholic from the UK.

    You are my secret unsung hero, Lark. I you secretly every day.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiharu View Post
    It is a slippery slope in America, though. The Supreme Court didn't have the balls to go all out in Roe v. Wade, and it may very likely be challenged again in the future. Furthermore, while late-term abortions are uncommon, they often save women's lives. And now that option is no longer available to women in Texas. They've been pushing back the date for abortions since they passed Roe v. Wade. Will women's bodies be piling up in the streets? No. Will women die? Yes, most likely. But Texas thinks a fetus is more important,though their concern apparently ends once it becomes a child or, "God" forbid, a poor person.

    If we don't do something now, we won't like the future. That's not fear-mongering. It's the truth.
    A fetus is more important than a 26 year old fetus of (black or white, let's not turn this into a race issue, America has become one big gigantic festering class issue) crackhead parents in a school district that was denied funding for "lack of money" in an inner city project created by rich people to push poor people out of "desirable" neighborhoods where there are things like fresh air, clean streets, schools without (much) violence, and access to parks or beaches or forests.

  10. #40
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    So is this where we Europeans get to openly sigh at your Wild Wild Western ways and look down on you for not being 'civilized' enough?

    Or should we just keep that stuff under wraps for now


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