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  1. #21
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I wonder if abortion is less of an issue in some of these other nations because of better access to birth control, so there are fewer unintended pregnancies to begin with. I would have less objection to rules prohibiting abortion after 20 weeks, barring medical necessity, if abortions could be had readily before that. All the roadblocks put in women's way, especially those that scare or bankrupt clinics into closing, make it a much more time consuming process for especially poor women to arrange an abortion.
    I think our abortion laws are a social compromise between different moral assessments of the issue. Religion plays a much smaller role though and political polarization is nowhere near what it is in th US.

    As I said, I never heard any complaints about the availability of abortion as far as clinics and doctors are concerned. "Abstinance only " is unheard of, students learn how to use condoms at school (which are readily available in most stores and there are vending machines in student residences) and it is not unusual for teenage girls to be on the pill at an early age.

    I'm not sure what the rate is, but there is not even a fixed term in German for "teenage pregnancy" and while it naturally exists and is a problem it is far less frequent here than in the US which IIRC leads the industrial world in that regard.
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  2. #22
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I wonder if abortion is less of an issue in some of these other nations because of better access to birth control, so there are fewer unintended pregnancies to begin with. I would have less objection to rules prohibiting abortion after 20 weeks, barring medical necessity, if abortions could be had readily before that. All the roadblocks put in women's way, especially those that scare or bankrupt clinics into closing, make it a much more time consuming process for especially poor women to arrange an abortion.
    I think our abortion laws are a social compromise between different moral assessments of the issue. Religion plays a much smaller role though and political polarization is nowhere near what it is in th US.

    As I said, I never heard any complaints about the availability of abortion as far as clinics and doctors are concerned. "Abstinance only " is unheard of, students learn how to use condoms at school (which are readily available in most stores and there are vending machines in student residences) and it is not unusual for teenage girls to be on the pill at an early age.

    I'm not sure what the rate is, but there is not even a fixed term in German for "teenage pregnancy" and while it naturally exists and is a problem it is far less frequent here than in the US which IIRC leads the industrial world in that regard.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  3. #23
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I think the late-abortion ban aspect of the Texas legislation is a red herring. I don't think it significantly alters a woman's right to an abortion. More objectionable to more people are the new restrictions on abortion clinics that would effectively shutter the vast majority of clinics in the state. It's like voter ID laws - the premise sounds reasonable at first glance until you study the consequences and realize the true intent of the legislation.
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Assuming of course that clinics don't make the requisite changes to conform with the law.
    I think someone already mentioned it, but the surgical standards include a lot of things which are irrelevant to the actual procedure of abortion, like width of hallways, complex ventilation systems, and different qualifications of personnel. Abortion simply doesn't require these, and is safe to perform in a clinical setting. It is far more expensive to meet these standards; so essentially right wing groups have made unnecessary laws to de-fund abortion facilities and force them into closing under the guise of making abortion safer.

    Here's a biased source, but it gives all the information I heard on NPR (which I don't consider biased).
    http://www.prochoice.org/about_abort...trap_laws.html

    I think more availability to contraception, better sex education, and less stigma and social pressure make later term abortions much less necessary in Europe.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    What the herring said.

    Is it such a non-issue here that I did not even know what the laws say.

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Does this even mean anything, or is it simply a grenade?
    Though meant to be a grenade, it is also, from the perspective of the South, a neat metaphor for the Civil War.

  5. #25
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    It's illegal in Brazil, and will probably continue that way.

    1-3 years in jail for the woman, and 1-4 years in jail for the third person who conducted the operation, but these sentences are mostly exchanged for community service.

    That doesn't stop a lot of women from aborting. Since it can't be done in a legal way, many women end up doing it in a clandestine way - which is much riskier, as qualified doctors usually won't risk losing their license.
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    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  6. #26
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    It's illegal in Brazil, and will probably continue that way.

    1-3 years in jail for the woman, and 1-4 years in jail for the third person who conducted the operation, but these sentences are mostly exchanged for community service.

    That doesn't stop a lot of women from aborting. Since it can't be done in a legal way, many women end up doing it in a clandestine way - which is much riskier, as qualified doctors usually won't risk losing their license.
    Such laws are obviously designed to incite people to become homosexual. Very progressive. Lark was right after all.

  7. #27
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I think someone already mentioned it, but the surgical standards include a lot of things which are irrelevant to the actual procedure of abortion, like width of hallways, complex ventilation systems, and different qualifications of personnel. Abortion simply doesn't require these, and is safe to perform in a clinical setting. It is far more expensive to meet these standards; so essentially right wing groups have made unnecessary laws to de-fund abortion facilities and force them into closing under the guise of making abortion safer.

    Here's a biased source, but it gives all the information I heard on NPR (which I don't consider biased).
    http://www.prochoice.org/about_abort...trap_laws.html

    I think more availability to contraception, better sex education, and less stigma and social pressure make later term abortions much less necessary in Europe.
    I'd wait to to see the actual effect of the law on the availability of the procedure before rounding up the rest of the villagers and lighting torches.

  9. #29
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    The answer to the topic question is Roe v. Wade. If we didn't see a power grab by nine unelected people in which they made up a new law out of thin air and applied it to the entire nation this wouldn't have been as big of a deal and things would have worked out slowly over time in diffent ways in different states.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post

    Our new Texas laws actually are actually nowhere near as draconian as the ones in europe, but you dont seem to see women in europe protesting those laws?
    That probably says more about your media's coverage of international news, than it does about what actually goes on here.

    Ireland just passed legislation legalising abortion for the first time - in response to protest over the death of a woman refused an abortion on medical grounds.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23507923

    Of course you guys always make a song and dance about everything. You're a very extroverted bunch. Also, you're altogether happier with the idea of executing people in general.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
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