Are too! Now smile, pretty lady. *leers, gropes... then runs away*
Originally Posted by Nijntje
Just discovered this thread and read from the beginning, the interesting thing for me with being told crap like "you're too pretty to frown, smile" is when read as female that would be a common enough experience, it's annoying and dismissive because it automatically attempts to invalidate any reason someone may have to not smile, the reasons for not looking happy are irrelevant, the interesting part for me now is I still walk around life with the same facial expressions, I often look like I'm frowning, it's my 'thinking face' but no one tells me to smile now, they simply ask me why I looks so mad.
It's the expectation for women to look pretty that makes it sexist, even if the person saying it doesn't intend to be sexist and it does come from women not only men, it's just not a comment thrown at men at all or at least as much. Ofc sexism goes both ways, I get glared at with discomfort if I interact with a child I don't know now, but dismissing the above as a nice comment is part of the issue, people don't seem to realise the double standards they hold for men v women. When a woman expresses being bothered or annoyed at being told to smile so she's pretty the typical reaction is she is unjustified or overreacting and that is part of the issue, girls are taught that attention from guys is something they should be grateful for and to be gentle with rejection and not bruise his ego or you're a bitch, so it's not unsurprising that there are people who would think that telling a girl she's too pretty to frown is actually a very nice compliment and totally miss how much it reduces her to something that is supposed to look pretty for others.
Now let's all find wisdom in the Simpsons!
Marge asks Lisa about her feelings. Lisa simply states she doesn't feel like smiling and Marge is adamant: "Well it doesn't matter how you feel inside, you know? It's what shows up on the surface that counts. That's what my mother taught me. Take all your bad feelings and push them down, all the way down, past your knees until you're almost walking on them. And then you'll fit in, and you'll be invited to parties, and boys will like you, and happiness will follow." This advice is rather uncharacteristic of Marge, but is quickly reconciled when Marge drops Lisa off at school wearing her best, fake smile. Lisa is immediately looked upon differently by a group of boys standing outside the school and is even invited to a party. One of the boys comments that Lisa may say "something weird." To which Lisa responds fakely: "Not me!" Seeing this, Marge is disgusted with herself. Marge grabs Lisa and speeds off once more to reconcile the mistake: "Lisa, I apologize to you, I was wrong, I take it all back. Always be yourself. If you want to be sad, honey, be sad. We'll ride it out with you. And when you get finished feeling sad, we'll still be there. From now on, let me do the smiling for both of us.''
It's not often recognised imo as what do you compare it with, plus with the exceptions of mens rights groups that are frequently also women hate groups the idea of complaining isn't well received. Talking of sexism against men would typically meet with a similar kind of reaction to this thread with women getting defensive about how the comments may be directed as an attack against them along with other men telling them to 'man up and stop bitching'.
Originally Posted by Salomé
The biggest issues with sexism against men are the expectations to be 'manly', stoic and in charge, that showing emotion for a man is unacceptable and looked down on, that women make better and more nurturing parents so should get default custody, that all men are potential child molesters so should not be left alone with a child that isn't theirs and will be forced to move on a plane if they end up sitting next to an unaccompanied minor, and that they cannot be sexually or physically assaulted without wanting it or being deserving of humiliation at "letting" it happen. If a man hits a woman he's an asshole, if a woman hits a man it's funny.
The thing I experience most now is comments from women about how any success I have in a work environment is due to inherent misogyny of the work force, I get what I get because I'm a man, not because I have worked for it and deserve it. It causes two issues imo, it takes away anything I've done to get where I am and reduces it to mere privilege, secondly it doesn't resolve any of the inequality that women do face in the work force as rather than showing how women are dismissed, it dismisses men and therefore improves nothing.
Interesting question for people to consider.
Originally Posted by fia