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  1. #621
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    @Nijntje (see ^)
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  2. #622
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Please tell me this nitwit has been banned from this thread. Wow. Just wow. Now it clicks, the need for the safe zone (how sad it had to come to this.) I just found the existence of this thread and kudos to @Nijtenje for creating it. And to the assholes invalidating such personal experiences - fuck you!! If you don't understand how that makes you a misogynist, I feel truly sorry for the women in your lives. And if you are a woman yourself, then I feel sorry for the weight you must carry, of your self-hate!
    No. I think he was just shamed out of it. There are a handful of characters that show up again and again in threads dealing with "women's issues", predictable as clockwork, to dismiss and intimidate.
    The trouble with thread bans is their reactive rather than proactive nature. By the time they are put in place, the damage is done. And because people anticipate being trolled , they often prefer to keep quiet. Thus letting the bullies win by default.

  3. #623
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Well, let me explain my angle here. I see that interaction as the male "testing the waters" so to speak, to see if there could be any interest. Why is that important? Because our species evolved with males pursuing females. Males are the ones who typically have to "put themselves out there" to be either accepted or rejected. Rejection is a pretty terrible feeling, so males are always looking for ways to mitigate or eliminate it. Are there lots of d-bags out there who feel like they're entitled to women? Absolutely, but there are also many males who are just trying to minimize the potential for their own feelings to be hurt. It seems to me that, as a society, we have to be willing to accept a certain level of uncomfortableness with these interactions.
    No one should have to "accept" being made to feel uncomfortable about themselves, due to unsolicited violation of personal space/boundary. I don't care if this is a stupid peacock dance, and using the "biology made me do it" is called NATURALISTIC FALLACY.



    On a side note, I think eliminating rejection is actually why some guys make cat calls at women while in groups. I don't think it's about entitlement in most situations, it's a way of expressing interest without making themselves vulnerable.
    That's the most ignorant thing I've heard, catcalling a woman while in a group is to express interest without making themselves be vulnerable. The only truth in that statement that echoes is the implication of a power game. Which is EXACTLY what it is.

    Are you kidding me? They're expressing interest? To what end? An interest is expressed in the hopes that it be received favourably, and the desired outcome (of getting the girl) is hopefully achieved. Which numbskull actually thinks that expressing an interest in the ways of cat-calling a woman, while you're in a gang with your boys, is EVER going to be received positively? To the point of the girl then taking you p on the offer?!!

    When around a gang of guys, it's a way of one male showing his "macho" side - a "bonding" with the boys, over objectifying their target of lust. It's less about the WOMAN (as a person), and more about the *tits/legs/ass* (insert a body part that cuts up a woman's personhood into pieces).

    When by yourself, it's the same, except, rather than aiming to validate your "macho" side to other boys, you do it for yourself. To assert (confirm) your own power to take a person and chop them into pieces to be objectified.

  4. #624
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Ironically, the actual male power that women usually swoon over is the man who is capable - though perhaps a bit nervous - of expressing his vulnerability AND his interest in her in a confident and genuine way. The one who owns his vulnerability instead of treating it like the devil, takes the plunge and asks the *person* in front of him for an interaction to see whether you share a spark. And yes, it can be scary. But that is what makes him actually so damn attractive - that he would be vulnerable AND treat her like an actual person.

    Granted, it is a tight rope to walk, a balance that many men seem to struggle to achieve. The good guys who are too afraid and insecure and stick to friendship to avoid rejection, and the bad guys who objectify. The good guy who owns his sexual interest as a good thing and something to act upon and the bad guy who owns his vulnerability as an asset instead of a weakness...those are
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  5. #625
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    The internet is a rough place for everyone, not just women. Deal with it.
    Translation:
    We own the internet and we make the rules, if we allow you to be here, you have to play by them or GTFO.

    Mmmmm. Smell that entitlement!

  6. #626
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Talking to Qre:us in rep, probably because too scared to re-enter this OPEN discussion
    There is no expiry date on threads, so I don't know why it's "necro fail". If it's a relevant issue, just like you felt you had every right to march in here, and challenge people's feelings about being victims of sexism, I can march in this thread any time I want and challenge you to defend YOURS.

    Secondly, I did read your responses, but most were not worthy of responses. The one that was one of the most jarring to me, I responded to.

    Either respond in public, to defend yourself, like you kept barraging the women in this thread to do, or gtfo!

    Kind regards,

    Q

  7. #627
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    That's the most ignorant thing I've heard, catcalling a woman while in a group is to express interest without making themselves be vulnerable. The only truth in that statement that echoes is the implication of a power game. Which is EXACTLY what it is.

    Are you kidding me? They're expressing interest? To what end? An interest is expressed in the hopes that it be received favourably, and the desired outcome (of getting the girl) is hopefully achieved. Which numbskull actually thinks that expressing an interest in the ways of cat-calling a woman, while you're in a gang with your boys, is EVER going to be received positively? To the point of the girl then taking you p on the offer?!!

    When around a gang of guys, it's a way of one male showing his "macho" side - a "bonding" with the boys, over objectifying their target of lust. It's less about the WOMAN (as a person), and more about the *tits/legs/ass* (insert a body part that cuts up a woman's personhood into pieces).

    When by yourself, it's the same, except, rather than aiming to validate your "macho" side to other boys, you do it for yourself. To assert (confirm) your own power to take a person and chop them into pieces to be objectified.
    I don't know what Lateralus meant exactly, but from my experience watching guys do this, it seems to come from a guy who on some level doesn't feel like his actually has any chance with the girl he is catcalling at. In that sense you could describe it as a way to 'avoid rejection.' They never make an honest attempt to actually go and speak to the woman where they would actually put themselves (their real selves) out their and chance of being rejected. Whereas a 'bullshit' attempt of just hollering at a girl isn't really expected to work, at least unconsciously I think the hollerer must know that much (or they truly are ignorant about how interactions tend to go).

    I think your macho validation argument can have merit sometimes, but that's not what I've really seen most the time. Or we're looking at two sides of the same coin, perhaps.

    Real life example:

    As a teenager I drove around a major city center doing deliveries with mostly working class black guys. We were in the rich, mostly white area, where the rich fashionable ladies from around town would get dressed up and go shopping. Beautiful, well manicured, healthy looking women all over the place. It was hard not to notice this, being a straight teenage male. But I never once had the desire to yell out the window at one of these women/girls. I never saw a point. Nothing was to be gained, and* it'd just make me look bad. *Note the "and" here.

    But the guys I was with, they always seemed to be hollering at these girls out the window. To some extent, this might be a cultural thing (me: rich-ish white kid), but I think it goes deeper than that.

    One day I just asked one of my buddies, dude, why are you doing that?

    I don't remember much of an answer, but it wasn't because they thought it was going to get them anywhere with those girls. And it wasn't always a buddy-buddy hey check out that hot chick sort of thing like they were validating each other. And I got to know these guys well, they weren't just emotionally insensitive clods, they really weren't.

    After watching this for years and going through my own experience approaching women through high school, I came to the conclusion that these guys hollering out the window, for their own real and percieved reasons, were fundamentally different from me in one big way, and that's where that "and" comes into play.

    See, these guys, they have nothing to gain, but they also have nothing to lose. Fact is, they were from another world for all intensive purposes. Sure, I was maybe 15, it's not like I had a chance of being with these women, but on some level, I was...sort of...part of that existence. I had a face to lose. But for the guys I was with...they might as well have been invisible. Like I said, for real and/or percieved reasons, those guys were nobody in that environment. Your typical dressed to the nine white woman walking out of some fancy store with her designer everything - she's not giving a working class black guy driving around in a beat up truck any mind.

    Some of this pre-assumed rejection is real, and some of this is percieved, but in the end you get this sort of self-defeating attitude that results from having no options. "Nothing to gain, nothing to lose, might as well yell at her to check her out, at least I can enjoy that." They might not really even know why they're doing it.

    But after watching this happen, the conclusion I often find is true is that a good portion of this shitty behavior is actually acting out because they feel like it doesn't really matter anyway, and there's resentment because they feel like they've been cheated. Sometimes it's with guys who really are ignored before they are even given a chance to be seen, sometimes it's guys who are afraid of rejection, sometimes it's guys with entitlement issues who think they really 'deserve' a girl's attention, and usually it's a muddy combination of all of them.


    Just my perspective after watching it.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  8. #628
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Oh boy.

  9. #629
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    @Njinjte http://stoptellingwomentosmile.tumblr.com



    "The revolution will begin when women stop smiling".
    Ooo. I like this. A lot.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  10. #630
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    @Nijntje (see ^)
    Zomg. I should just change my name to ninja.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


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