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  1. #441
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    From now on when people act like it's unreasonable that I'm still pissed off about how women are treated in the developed world and insist that we no longer need feminism, I'll just send them this story:

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/2...illed-herself/
    I'm guessing you were misled by the title of that piece because as far as I can tell sexism has nothing to do with this. (Edit: with the punishment not the crime itself obviously)

    The girl died so there was no witness available to testify about the crime. The suicide came before the verdict not after as the title seems to indicate.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  2. #442
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Holy hell, somebody hold me back!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #443
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Holy hell, somebody hold me back!
    Me?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  4. #444
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Me?
    No. You're already holding back civilisation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #445
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    From now on when people act like it's unreasonable that I'm still pissed off about how women are treated in the developed world and insist that we no longer need feminism, I'll just send them this story:
    You might find that even when it's this self-evident, they still won't get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #446
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I'm guessing you were misled by the title of that piece because as far as I can tell sexism has nothing to do with this. (Edit: with the punishment not the crime itself obviously)

    The girl died so there was no witness available to testify about the crime. The suicide came before the verdict not after as the title seems to indicate.
    If that's the case, then the crime that actually occurred included murder.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  7. #447
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    No. You're already holding back civilisation.
    Please, you know what I meant.

    Do you need to be held back because you take issue with what I just wrote about the rape and suicide above?

    If that is the case, while we may disagree on some things I'm guessing this is just a matter of miscommunication.

    Regardless, I will clarify my remarks for any others who may have misunderstood me.

    I'm not saying that rape is not evidence of sexism.
    I'm not saying a decision to comit suicide that occurs after a rape might not be influenced by sexism in society.
    I'm not even saying that there is not sexism within the American justice system.
    All I'm saying is that from the information available about the case I don't see how this plea deal represents systematic sexism in the justice system as it was caused by lack of testimony which is not unique to victims who comit suicide in rape cases.

    http://missoulian.com/news/state-and...a4bcf887a.html

    Prosecutors charged Rambold with three counts of felony sexual intercourse without consent in 2008 after one of his students told a church group leader of the incidents, which she said happened in 2007, when she was 14.

    The girl later committed suicide, and prosecutors said they would not be able to convict Rambold without her testimony. In 2010, after several months of negotiations, Rambold and prosecutors signed a deferred prosecution agreement, which put the criminal case on hold for three years.

    The agreement stated that the case against Rambold would be dismissed at the end of that period if Rambold met several conditions, including a requirement that he complete a sex offender treatment program and that he signed an affidavit admitting he performed an illegal sexual act on the girl.

    In a motion to revive the prosecution against Rambold filed with the court on Monday, Souza said officials were notifed that Rambold was terminated from the treatment program. The prosecutor did not say when Rambold was terminated from the program.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  8. #448
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I'm guessing you were misled by the title of that piece because as far as I can tell sexism has nothing to do with this. (Edit: with the punishment not the crime itself obviously)

    The girl died so there was no witness available to testify about the crime. The suicide came before the verdict not after as the title seems to indicate.
    I can't even believe I'm actually reading this right now. Did you not see the part where the judge said she was "older than her chronological age" (logic I hope we wouldn't accept from an offender- why is it okay when it comes from a judge?) and was "as much in control" of the situation as HER TEACHER WHO RAPED HER? The judge apparently didn't have a problem with there not being a witness to testify about the crime before he reached those conclusions. That a young woman was apparently worth no more than this to a judge who is supposedly one of the most respected members of society is, without a doubt, sexism of the highest order.

  9. #449
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    If that's the case, then the crime that actually occurred included murder.

    While there was no murder charge, as you can see from the article above, at the very least the family was successful in settling a wrongful death suit where the burden of proof was lower. Though the amount seems low at $91k.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  10. #450
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I can't even believe I'm actually reading this right now. Did you not see the part where the judge said she was "older than her chronological age" (logic I hope we wouldn't accept from an offender- why is it okay when it comes from a judge?) and was "as much in control" of the situation as HER TEACHER WHO RAPED HER? The judge apparently didn't have a problem with there not being a witness to testify about the crime before he reached those conclusions. That a young woman was apparently worth no more than this to a judge who is supposedly one of the most respected members of society is, without a doubt, sexism of the highest order.
    I haven't been able to find actual court documents, but when a case is being sensationalized by the press my presumption is there is a good deal of distortion of what actually is going on. For instance Huffpo doesn't even mention that this verdict was part of a plea deal in their story.

    In most rape cases those comments would be absolutely reprehensible and I would certainly condemn them. However, those would be relevant issues in a statutory rape case when it came to sentencing (though given the resulting suicide the judge's determination of those issues doesn't make much sense.) While I wasn't able to track down exact court documents I did track down the relevant criminal code where it is clear that the reported charge of "sexual intercourse without consent" includes sex with any minor under 16.


    Edit:
    http://missoulian.com/news/state-and...=true#comments

    On Tuesday, Baugh stood by his comments that Morales was a troubled youth who was older than her age when it came to sexual matters. That didn’t make Rambold’s sex with Morales any less of a crime, he said.

    “Obviously, a 14-year-old can’t consent. I think that people have in mind that this was some violent, forcible, horrible rape,” Baugh said. “It was horrible enough as it is, just given her age, but it wasn’t this forcible beat-up rape.

    Baugh said Morales’ death complicated the county attorney’s ability to prosecute Rambold. After Morales’ suicide, the prosecution and defense reached an agreement that Rambold would enter sexual offender treatment. If the former teacher completed treatment and complied with other conditions, the case would have been closed.

    But Rambold broke terms of the agreement by associating with teens, who were his relatives, and by becoming sexually involved with an adult, but not notifying authorities.

    “I think what people are seeing is a sentence for rape of 30 days. Obviously on the face of it, if you look at it that way, it’s crazy,” Baugh said. “No wonder people are upset. I’d be upset, too if that happened.”
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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