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  1. #31
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I honestly cannot imagine what that's like. Unless you're a celebrity or wealthy, males are almost never pursued. We're always on the other side of this, thinking "should I approach that woman"? If a male never approaches anyone, he'll almost certainly spend his life alone. Unfortunately, the ones who do approach women most often are the d-bags.

    I guess I'm trying to stick up for the guys who aren't sexist and are just awkward. I don't think anyone likes the entitled d-bags, but grouping all males together so nonchanlantly as feeling entitled to women's bodies is patently unfair.
    but the thing is, there are appropriate and inappropriate ways of approaching women. Catcalling, yelling to get your boobs out, being publicly groped, being reduced back to what you look like isn't it.

    i LOVE awkward guys. Jeebus, i'm dating one. He was clueless and it was endearing, but NEVER did he reduce me to a 'thing'

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  2. #32
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I don't think I would feel anger towards a stranger - especially if I could gage that I was physically stronger. I'm actually a pretty nice person, but there are instances where I would ignore someone saying that to me because I wouldn't want to invite more interaction. Other instances I may look down and smile (embarrassed), but men should realize that many women have been intruded upon by men who cross serious lines. To not invite an interaction is not being mean or snobby, but self protective. A man should not feel slighted if a stranger ignores his greeting or advances.
    Well, I wouldn't feel anger either. If I felt anything, I would probably feel bad about myself. But my general philosophy is that we should judge feelings much less harshly than behavior. I wouldn't assume someone who felt anger at being rejected in that situation as being sexist, I would assume they lacked empathy. I don't think those are the same thing.

    It is important to note the many different degrees of sexism and that incredibly nice people can have sexist ideas and feelings. I dated a really kind-hearted sexist when I was in college. He was a theology major and he could get really critical of me for anything that didn't fit with his idea of the requirements of a pastor's wife. That doesn't denigrate his entire character. A person can be wonderful, kind, thoughtful, and still be sexist. It is painful to look at this issue, but it helps for people to see it isn't an all or nothing issue regarding someone's character. It is a deep cultural issue and some sexists are horrible rapists and molesters, some are just immature jerks, some are partly nice and partly horrible, and others are almost completely wonderful, sans the sexism.
    I agree with this, completely. One of the most people sexist people I have ever met is my mother, and she is also one of the nicest people I have ever known. She's nice, cheery, and pretty much everyone loves her company. But she also believes women have a place in this world as dictated by the Bible.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #33
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
    i don;t tell strangers to cheer up because they're too pretty. THAT is my point.
    And my point is that you don't understand why someone would do that. Labeling it as sexist without understanding the motivation is silly.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #34
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I agree with this, completely. One of the most people sexist people I have ever met is my mother, and she is also one of the nicest people I have ever known. She's nice, cheery, and pretty much everyone loves her company. But she also believes women have a place in this world as dictated by the Bible.
    i'm also not discounting women as being some of own their worst enemies. The guidance counsellor who told me to do 'women's things, and not science" was a woman.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  5. #35
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
    but the thing is, there are appropriate and inappropriate ways of approaching women. Catcalling, yelling to get your boobs out, being publicly groped, being reduced back to what you look like isn't it.

    i LOVE awkward guys. Jeebus, i'm dating one. He was clueless and it was endearing, but NEVER did he reduce me to a 'thing'
    You are confusing your own preferences for objective truth. There is a lot of diversity in what women find endearing. Just because someone behaved in a way you didn't find endearing does not make it sexist.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #36
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    I wondered how long it would take for Lateralus to show up and call you "silly".

    He's slipping.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #37
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    how is being reduced back to how i look endearing?

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  8. #38
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    I read something that seemed like it made sense for men to understand approaching women better. About very straightforward visual cues. Because there are some creepers, but there are, like @Lateralus is saying, a lot of clueless men who just don't realize their behavior is coming off as uncomfortable or invasive to women.

    You test the waters, not by telling someone how to act ("smile"), but perhaps by looking at the person, seeing if she is engaged in something else (reading, listening to music, are typically good signs that she doesn't want to talk to you), if she is pointedly avoiding eye contact with you, etc etc.

    Whatever though, I can't remember the link and I can't explain it as well as the link did.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  9. #39
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    fwiw. i have a wide circle of friends, from many different walks of life. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. THEM. FINDS. THIS. INSULTING.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  10. #40
    Stansmith
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    I don't do any of that, it looks bad and there's nothing to gain from it.

    I wouldn't say im anti-misogyny or pro-misogyny, lets just say I accept the nature of the juvenile male - female dynamic as it is without judgement. There are obviously exceptions, but most 18 year olds of either gender end up succumbing to the same stereotypes and roles perpetuated by misogyny regardless of their progressive views.

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