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  1. #351
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    How do you imagine the shift occurring? Only the strongest and fastest females mate?

    If you mean strongest and fastest physically? No you misunderstand me, I am more talking social attitudes as the starting block.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  2. #352
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    How do you imagine the shift occurring? Only the strongest and fastest females mate?

    If you mean strongest and fastest physically? No you misunderstand me, I am more talking social attitudes as the starting block.

    Although interestingly that reminds me of peoples such as ancient Amazonians female tribe and other similar tribes (much debate around the existance of these though). But i think we have progressed far beyond 'just' the physical dictating hierachy.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  3. #353
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    How do you imagine the shift occurring? Only the strongest and fastest females mate?
    We stop giving reproductive preference to women who are weak, submissive, compliant, dependent, even pretty. Of course I am considering more here than physical performance. I am including strength on all levels, intelligence, independence, assertiveness, etc.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #354
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    Ok I had thought @HelenOfTroy was referring to gender disparities in athletic performance...

    Edit: ohhhh I re-read your original post that I quoted. Were you are saying that you expect those disparities to be more a result of socialization than biology?
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  5. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    We stop giving reproductive preference to women who are weak, submissive, compliant, dependent, even pretty. Of course I am considering more here than physical performance. I am including strength on all levels, intelligence, independence, assertiveness, etc.
    I won't hold my breath.

  6. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Sexual competition....over their daughters?

    I don't see much trust between men, tbh. I see a lot of posturing and defensiveness, but not a lot of trust.
    To your first comment, yes. It's not literal, but there is a psychosexual dynamic in which fathers become possessive and/or protective of the sexuality of their daughters.

    To the second, I guess it depends on the circumstances. I've experienced both, e.g., men being openly hostile to other men just because they're men, and e.g., men being more willing and open to hearing and trusting information if it's coming from a man as opposed to a woman.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #357
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    We stop giving reproductive preference to women who are weak, submissive, compliant, dependent, even pretty. Of course I am considering more here than physical performance. I am including strength on all levels, intelligence, independence, assertiveness, etc.
    Any data on what percentage of a given human population doesn't reproduce and the characteristics of that group?

    I'd imagine that on some level attractive people have an easier time finding mates - but does this actually translate into them having more children? And unattractive people not having any?

    Some animal populations are skewed like that, where only the most dominant male (or whatever, best female, alpha queen etc) mates and the rest of them don't mate at all, but I question if human society really works like that.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  8. #358
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I won't hold my breath.
    Nor would I. Many men still have a preference for women they can push around, and many women still tolerate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Any data on what percentage of a given human population doesn't reproduce and the characteristics of that group?

    I'd imagine that on some level attractive people have an easier time finding mates - but does this actually translate into them having more children? And unattractive people not having any?

    Some animal populations are skewed like that, where only the most dominant male (or whatever, best female, alpha queen etc) mates and the rest of them don't mate at all, but I question if human society really works like that.
    I haven't seen any data, and have no time to find any right now. The obvious cagetories that tend not to reproduce are those with medical conditions limiting fertility (smaller group now with medical advances); gay people (though some spend time in hetero relationships, or have other opportunities to reproduce); and those who remain celibate for religious reasons. Then there are those outside these categories who just never find a mate. I know some of these. A few eventually married, but were all but past childbearing years by that time.

    Be careful - you might be mixing apples and oranges. Physical attractiveness was just one of the qualities I listed in women more likely to find a mate and have the chance to reproduce. I suspect many men, however much they would like a gorgeous bombshell, content themselves with an ordinary woman who will do what they want, let them take the lead, and be the typical helpmeet/pleaser. Human "alpha females" would by contrast be independent, resourceful, smart, strong, etc. Yes, many of them find mates and reproduce. Listen to all the advice given for generations to girls as they grow up, though: "don't let him see how smart you are", "let the man be in charge - he knows best", "find a good provider", "don't meet your bf looking like that!", "your husband's needs come first", etc. This is taught because historically this is what sells.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #359
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  10. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Nor would I. Many men still have a preference for women they can push around, and many women still tolerate it.
    Men are now and will always be the arbiters of what they find attractive in women.

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