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  1. #301
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    I guess I don't understand how, if you wouldn't want someone to say, act that way to your mother, screaming obscenities, threatening her with rape, leering and ogling at her (don't say it doesn't happen, grandmothers still get raped for god's sake) Or if someone did this to your girlfriend, or sister, or god forbid you have a daughter and this happens to her too. If you're not okay with that (and most men when pressed aren't) how can you be okay with it happening to a stranger. It's still someone's mother/sister/girlfriend/wife/daughter that you're disrespecting.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  2. #302
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Here's a question for both genders: if someone of the opposite gender were to come up and ask for sex, would it feel like they were in control of the situation or that you were?
    I would feel he was rude, but I would consider myself in control of the situation, unless he tried to force himself on me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Otoh, we can't overlook the slut-shaming and pregnancy risks - so for them sex is easier to get, but a considerably riskier decision.
    Slut-shaming is a problem of our own creation, just like any kind of bullying, and will not go away until people stand up to it. Pregnancy is much less a risk with modern birth control. This is a relatively recent development, though, so it may take time for its impact to be felt across the world with its various cultures and customs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    So what do you tell a person who is obliviously acting out a sexist culture?
    Think/feel locally, but act globally. You have a comfort level with the customs, traditions, and attitudes you are familiar with: understood. You must understand that out in the real world, it is no longer acceptable to act on most of these, just as it is no longer acceptable to refuse to hire blacks, however racially bigoted you may still be.

    Interestingly, as people act more inclusively and respectfully, it gives them more occasions to get to know members of the "other" group, and more opportunities to develop true understanding and felt respect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Perhaps you are presuming misogynists are acting in good will.
    Many misogynists are acting out of good will, trying to secure for women what they think is in their own good. Of course, this "goodwill" is misguided in that it presumes to decide for the woman what she needs/wants, overriding her self-determination. The guys that want to take care of all the repairs, paying bills, even earning a living, etc. to spare their wife/gf from having to do it; the women who teach their daughters to be pretty, learn to cook, and hide their intelligence so they will get a man; they all believe they are helping.

    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    I've peeped in on the thread a couple of times to see how it's going and I am saddened but unsurprised to see how many men view this unacceptable behavior as perfectly reasonable. Suffice it to say @Nijntje that I have experienced some of the same things that you have shared (and worse). I have had a couple of the closest men in my life, who I have shared a thing or two with, downplay these incidents, and that hurt enormously.
    It is especially sad because many men on the forum seem young, educated, thoughtful, well-spoken, and generally courteous. If even they don't get it, what hope is there for the rest of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
    I guess I don't understand how, if you wouldn't want someone to say, act that way to your mother, screaming obscenities, threatening her with rape, leering and ogling at her (don't say it doesn't happen, grandmothers still get raped for god's sake) Or if someone did this to your girlfriend, or sister, or god forbid you have a daughter and this happens to her too. If you're not okay with that (and most men when pressed aren't) how can you be okay with it happening to a stranger. It's still someone's mother/sister/girlfriend/wife/daughter that you're disrespecting.
    Amen.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #303
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Many misogynists are acting out of good will, trying to secure for women what they think is in their own good. Of course, this "goodwill" is misguided in that it presumes to decide for the woman what she needs/wants, overriding her self-determination. The guys that want to take care of all the repairs, paying bills, even earning a living, etc. to spare their wife/gf from having to do it; the women who teach their daughters to be pretty, learn to cook, and hide their intelligence so they will get a man; they all believe they are helping.
    The meaning of misogyny is the hatred of women.

    And rather than helping, misogynists dominate, diminish and destroy women.

    Who cares what they believe? Their beliefs are only serve their hatred of women.

    Any woman who believes misogynists only want to help is a victim of the Stockholm Syndrome.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Offering compliments for the purpose of boosting their ego is nice, if not necessarily appropriate, effective, or wise.

    I have plenty of experience with the opposite sex, unpleasant and other wise, and im not exactly a prude, to put it mildly.

    And even I feel violated by the way some men behave. Its quite entitled.

    I already explained a proper compliment. Telling someone to smile or making lewd suggestions to a stranger aren't welcome. A lot of men who make "compliments" like "hot ass" are ugly or scary or smelly or stupid. Stop assuming you're hot just because you believe I am.

    Taste is subjective and the lady in question might find your attention repulsive, so isn't it better to play it safe, just in case, witj polite compliments about hair or eyes or clothes...or hey what about talent or intelligence.

    Being aggressive merely wears down women with low self-esteem. GQ lied. Aggressive behavior not good. Confidence yes, aggressive behavior no.

    Ive actually been physically and mentally attracted to my mates. Aggressive behavior alone is obnoxious to any woman with self respect.

    But I am Girly.



    Don't tell me what is for. I will tell you.

    What annoys me is that you say you dont even compliment strangers. You are arguing just to argue. God I hate ntps.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
    Okay. So i just want to make myself clear on what has been said over tge last couple of pages. Men cannot control themselves and their biological urges to mate. Because women are limited by their ability to only produce one egg, they have to be choosy, meaning they can get sex whenever they want, however they want, with whomever they want. However, if they do, they are called sluts and abandoned or shamed if they get pregnant. Because if course men have no responsibility in that area.

    Is that right? Is that what you're telling me? That I should be GLAD for the attention and how easy it is to get sex? That I should be happy that I get reduced, daily, to nothing more than a sexual object for men's desires?

    Hum. Okay. Whelp, apparently I don't know my place.
    I honestly think this has to do with empowering the lowest class. Im working class, but the sort of person who used to be called lower middle class, who is clean white collar knows how to speak, like the clerks in Are You Being Served.

    But our liberal world view has also empowered the unwashed masses. And their vantage point to abusing uneducated feminists is to bully them into unwanted sex or wanted sex with no responsibility, it is like an unintended loop hole in feminism. It created a back door to degrade women on a whole new level with the logic oh wait aren't you independent then im not responsible, and I will use pseudo science to back that. Ugh.

  6. #306
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    And oh wait by making society classless we are making it socially acceptable for the middle class to behave this way as well, if I didn't make that clear.

  7. #307
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    So arguing with misogynists on the basis of good will is doomed to failure.
    Exactly. Which is why we should just ban them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Many misogynists are acting out of good will,
    You really don't know what misogyny is, do you? No ideology based on hate can ever be said to operate from good will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Stop assuming you're hot just because you believe I am.
    I think you should get that printed on a T-shirt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #308
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I have plenty of experience with the opposite sex, unpleasant and other wise, and im not exactly a prude, to put it mildly.

    And even I feel violated by the way some men behave. Its quite entitled.

    I already explained a proper compliment. Telling someone to smile or making lewd suggestions to a stranger aren't welcome. A lot of men who make "compliments" like "hot ass" are ugly or scary or smelly or stupid. Stop assuming you're hot just because you believe I am.

    Taste is subjective and the lady in question might find your attention repulsive, so isn't it better to play it safe, just in case, witj polite compliments about hair or eyes or clothes...or hey what about talent or intelligence.
    In my experience the men who have been inappropriate to me when teaching have often been old enough to be my father, and some did smell badly as well. This happened both when they were men taking piano lessons from me and when I was a music student taking voice lessons from them. There is something that can feel even more violating about that for me. I now avoid teaching most adult men. Even the ones who did not communicate sexual desire tended to be overly defensive of me as an authority figure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Being aggressive merely wears down women with low self-esteem. GQ lied. Aggressive behavior not good. Confidence yes, aggressive behavior no.

    Ive actually been physically and mentally attracted to my mates. Aggressive behavior alone is obnoxious to any woman with self respect.

    Don't tell me what is for. I will tell you.

    What annoys me is that you say you dont even compliment strangers. You are arguing just to argue. God I hate ntps.
    Good post here. You also made a great observation about the loop hole in feminism in your other post.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #309
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
    I guess I don't understand how, if you wouldn't want someone to say, act that way to your mother, screaming obscenities, threatening her with rape, leering and ogling at her (don't say it doesn't happen, grandmothers still get raped for god's sake) Or if someone did this to your girlfriend, or sister, or god forbid you have a daughter and this happens to her too. If you're not okay with that (and most men when pressed aren't) how can you be okay with it happening to a stranger. It's still someone's mother/sister/girlfriend/wife/daughter that you're disrespecting.
    Well, in fairness, I seriously doubt anyone here is comfortable with the bold happening to strangers either. The last part people might let slide more in general. Inconsistency may appear because a person doesn't want someone leering that their girlfriend because she's theirs. Possession. Is that reasonable? I don't know. But I really don't think the anyone is giving the first two things slack.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #310
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, in fairness, I seriously doubt anyone here is comfortable with the bold happening to strangers either. The last part people might let slide more in general. Inconsistency may appear because a person doesn't want someone leering that their girlfriend because she's theirs. Possession. Is that reasonable? I don't know. But I really don't think the anyone is giving the first two things slack.
    so you'd be okay with someone leering at your mother? you wouldn't think it was off?

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


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