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  1. #171
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Oh right, of course. Nijntje is in the wrong place. Because, you guys were here first, right? You put your little flag in the ground an everything.

    Name one forum where she could post without criticism. Then go there and make a post, like hers, as a woman. Then report back.

    Then tell us why she has to fuck off out of her own thread, instead of you.
    Nope, it has nothing to do with who was here first. It does, however, have to do with the culture of this subforum. It has always been about open debate.

    I don't know where she could post without criticism, but the internet is a massive place. There is certainly a place, somewhere. There might even be a subforum on this site. Does this place still have personal blogs? Those were places you could make posts and control the responses of others.

    No one has said she had to fuck off out of her own thread. The original debate she and I had is finished, anyway. But others have since jumped in to try to perpetuate it.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I think it is important to have ideas challenged as well, but "giant circle jerk"? Implying that women jerk-off to anecdotes about sexist boundaries being crossed?

    Go back and read the violations that women have faced. I doubt your mother raped your father. I doubt that women employers treated you like crap because you wouldn't flirt with them. I doubt very many girls stalked you with threatening poetry. Did a woman ever stalk your father causing a continual anxiety to you throughout your time in college? Have girls demanded repeatedly that you explain to them EXACTLY WHY you don't want them and your choice wasn't a good enough reason? You don't know you are privileged. You are having something on the level of a sibling rivalry here. That is not what a thread like this is about. Step away and reflect on what has happened here.

    Post in the thread, but just don't be dismissive. Imagine someone starting a thread about racism descibing ways they had faced it and me as a caucasian coming in and saying, "no, that's not the way it is". What a terrible mistake for anyone with my color skin to post in this thread. It isn't who you are it is what you post. Post like a sexist in a thread against sexism and guess what? Suddenly you don't have the level of privilege you are accustomed to.



    That's good. It isn't intended to please you and make you feel good. It is to challenge you as well. Don't accuse anyone else of not being able to take a challenge if you don't demonstrate the same willingness by taking a look and describing how you have been affected by sexism, because you have.
    The only thing I'm going to demonstrate is my willingness to not give a flying fuck, enjoy agreeing with each other.

  3. #173
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Women aren't capable of anything more stimulating than small talk? How...dismissive of you. You can't know what you're missing out on. It's in the nature of "missing out". You can speculate, but only from a position of bigotry.
    Wrong, random strangers, male and female. I think I went out of my way to make that explicitly clear earlier, but you, as you usually do, go out of your way to read things males post in the worst possible light.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #174
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Nope, it has nothing to do with who was here first. It does, however, have to do with the culture of this subforum. It has always been about open debate.

    I don't know where she could post without criticism, but the internet is a massive place. There is certainly a place, somewhere. There might even be a subforum on this site. Does this place still have personal blogs? Those were places you could make posts and control the responses of others.

    No one has said she had to fuck off out of her own thread. The original debate she and I had is finished, anyway. But others have since jumped in to try to perpetuate it.
    But Lateralus, you have criticized her. No one stopped you. Some people have criticized you as well which is also part of the whole debate process. Isn't everything proceeding exactly the way it does in debates? What's different? What is different from your expectations?

    Edit: I think I see because it isn't a discussion someone can "win". I don't think women who share experiences think of it as winning either. There is still a way to challenge ideas without having anyone have a sense of winning. Is that it? I'm not actually certain, but a later post brought that to my mind.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  5. #175
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't know where she could post without criticism,
    But you were so "sure"! Are you in the habit of being sure about things you know nothing about?

    Oh...wait
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #176
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Not an applicable comparison in the context of flirtation, and like I said, part of the motivation may be to give a sympathetic ego boost. Do you believe that it would be sexist for another woman to say essentially the same thing? If its simply due to the flirtatious aspect of things, well we already covered that.
    This seems pretty condescending to me. There's a decent chance some of the comments I get are for exactly that reason because I am plainish. I am not saying there is no room for improvement, but I am fine with how I look and whatever ego deficiencies I have are not due to my physical appearance. Some guy I don't even know attempting some type of amateur psycho-therapy on me is not endearing. Generally when women complement one another, we complement something that took effort or talent or taste, like the color of a top or a hair cut or a nice looking purse or shoes. Not always of course and sometimes it can be insincere or have ulterior motives, but generally we aren't treating someone like a DIY project or an object. Generally. As has been said, women can be sexist and even misogynist and there are many men who aren't.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #177
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The personal is political.

    So why not join a political group that is fighting the harassment, beating, enslavement, rape and the killing of women throughout the world.

    Why not join the Femen?
    That is an excellent point, and you are right. I am interested in doing that. I have done some creative projects to increase awareness, but I don't feel like I've made a difference.

    I can see your point and that a debate like this is unlikely to change any minds because people don't want to communicate unless they feel like they can "win" a debate and this thread isn't about winning.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  8. #178
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    I cant believe I've followed this thread this long.


  9. #179
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    I just don't understand the knee-jerk reaction to paint this as an "us vs them" thing. Sure, you may be a man but you must have important women in your life that you love. Mother, sisters, girlfriends, wives, friends. Can you read that blog and be ok with the fact that those women in your life almost certainly have to put up with that shit on a regular basis? Did you realize it? Because that's what the women in the blog are telling us.

  10. #180
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Exactly. This was never about how much dudes suck. Hell, I love dudes. I have a husband and a son, and I want my son to grow up in a world where he's both respected and respectful. I would also like my daughter to grow up in a world where she doesn't have to worry about being assaulted, but we don't live in that world. Acknowledging this is not man-hating. It's just being real.

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