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  • have changed allegiances

    12 33.33%
  • have not

    15 41.67%
  • am not American

    9 25.00%
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  1. #41
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Raised in a republican stronghold with parents who never expressed political views when i was growing up... my mom is actually pretty uninformed on most politics still. I was encouraged to come up with my own views on things and shifted around fairly dramatically from libertarian to radical left and ended up settling on left by the time I was old enough to vote. I registered to vote on my 18th birthday and have voted solidly democratic in every election since because they tend to be incredibly more apt to support the issues that I find most important than the more religiously bent republicans that we have around here

    So no, since I have been able to vote I haven't changed my party allegiance. The pro-choice standpoint is one of the most important political issues to me and I feel that I'm more likely to have a democrat supporting me on that than a republican. I put an X on the rooster during the last 2 elections... couldn't do that in my hometown because most slots didn't even have a Democrat running
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #42
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Yes, that is rather common, but I'd be very shocked if that was not the case in New Zealand or anywhere else. Seems to make perfect sense that upbringing would have an effect on this kind of thing. It's a lot like religion.
    Oh, there is an element of that but it doesn't seem to be as strictly adhered to. We have the same general rural/urban divide (rural leaning towards the conservative and urban towards liberal) for example, but it's often not so clear cut. As for upbringing, it's perfectly common to have different political beliefs within even tight knit families. There's not as much pressure to toe the family line, in most cases. Granted our 2 main political parties are not so dramatically polarised as they are in the US, and we do have many minor parties that make up the gaps - so this might be a factor.

    As for me, I do a lot of questioning and analysis of things, so it's not as though I'm just repeating things without thinking about them. I have a strong need for Ti internal consistency, which means that priniciples are very very important to me, and I can't just discard them when it's convenient
    This is how it should be.

    I mean, what party do you vote for, and what party do your parents vote for? If it's different, does that really not cause any tension? Unless it's like the New Zealand Liberal Progressive Party vs. the New Zealand Progressive Liberal party. (Political party names seem to be equally stupid and meaningless across the globe.)
    Oh, those political party names are always so unimaginative no matter where you go.

    I'm not sure it would be useful to compare, because NZ politics are more nuanced than divisive (although you wouldn't know it the way we argue over it), and because we're more left leaning in general, whereas the US is slightly right leaning, I think? On top of that we don't have religion or the same kinds of idealogical issues influencing our politics (for the most part).

    My Dad always votes for the National Party, which is the major conservative party. My Mum generally votes for Labour, which is the major liberal party, but she occasionally votes for National or the Greens (which is a minor liberal party, that's slightly more left leaning than Labour). My sister is probably the most conservative in my family and has voted for National, and, I think, either New Zealand First or Act (both of which are slightly more right leaning, minor parties). I vote for the Greens or Labour - although mostly the Greens. As you can imagine, political discussions can get quite heated in my household.

    Both my parents come from a conservative voting family. My Mum's family are/were farmers, and National has always supported farmers. My Dad's side come from a more business background, which naturally makes them inclined towards National. Both families are relatively socially conservative too (for NZ, anyway).

    I find myself preventing disagreements between my dad and my uncle. Both of them are too set in their ways for the discussion to do anything except get ugly.
    Yeah, there's a point where you just have to let it go. Some people's minds are made up. I know I'm not going to vote conservative any time soon, so I can't exactly expect others to change.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Kind of. Most of my family and my in-laws are religious and political conservatives and they consider me wrong-headed, lapsed from the faith, and a bad influence from what I can tell. Not just because of my politics, but partly because of them, especially my support for gay marriage. They're mostly polite, but in a pained kind of way. They are praying I will see the light.

    Hopefully most families aren't quite as bad as mine when it comes to this stuff, but things are kind of polarized and emotional here right now, so who knows?
    "Praying you see the light?". That's not at all condescending.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Sure, until you go to college.
    So it generally doesn't change until people leave home? Not those rebellious early teenage years?
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  3. #43
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    Hahahha....I thought I was a conservative until I was 12. I was raised by Repubs. My grandparents. I forgive them though because they were like Eisenhower/Regan repubs. My awesome great-aunt and her husband were Dems and active in WV gov and friends of Kennedy's (my second cousin was in a pic on John F's lap when I was a kid, on great-aunt's mantle, this is how I grew up...half working class half weirdly privileged upper middle class, this explains my insanity probably).

    My mom is a Dem, all my sisters are Dems, no one in my family in their right mind would even dream of voting Repub now, we know that Republican doesn't mean the same thing it meant in 1960 or even in 1980, and that Dem also does not mean what it meant in the South in the 20th century.

    I'm more centrist than I was about things like national defense and personal responsibility than I was in my late teens/early twenties...they say you get more conservative as you get older, and in my case it was true...but only in that I realize how effective systems are.

    I've convinced two supposedly self-avowed "conservtive" bf's who were also SJs who weren't heavily into politics that they were more moderate Dem than they realized.

    The new SJ I think is more egalitarian and environmentally aware.

    Obama is a centrist right winger anyway, anyone who thinks any differently is batshit delusional, which is why I hate libertarians with all of my soul.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Everyone should vote libertarian even if they disagree with libertarian ideas. If libs get 5% of the vote, we get an official 3rd party represented in congress which will put an end to the two party system, which more or less acts as 1 party these days anyway.
    If I were to (stupidly, irrationally) make a meaningless third party vote, I'd vote Green Party, so screw Ron Paul, really.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'd rather join some satanic cult. Wait, it amounts to the same thing.
    And this is why I love you Lark.


  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    You just don't appreciate Ti in its utter political manifestation.
    Um, Ron Paul is actually probably an overly idealistic INFP. If you'd like to know why, just ask.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Pretty much this. I don't understand why people are so shocked that Obama turned out not to be a revolutionary. If people had listened to the debates, it was clear he wasn't the firebrand radical people thought he would be. Of course, people just called me "cynical" for pointing that out at the time.

    I'd like anyone here who is upset because they "didn't get the change they voted for" dig up the democratic primaries in Youtube. Him and Hillary, the two people at the top of the race, were the most moderate of the bunch.

    And yes, his answers to questions about the Patriot Act and the like were lukewarm at best.
    Hillary is a brilliant liberal conservative middle person. I love her IxTJ ass. (People debate over INTJ and ISTJ).

    She's fierce. She's on the defense. She's not about to make any stupid idealistic promises.

    Did Hillary lose the vote because of womanhood...or because she was less milquetoast than Obama?

    Obama is a milquetoast ENFJ diplomat. It's the one thing je deteste. It's why I voted Hillary in the Primary. She's not a milquetoast diplomat, and that pissed conservatives off too much.

    But Obama saved face for America with the world, God bless him. That's extremely valuable for peaceable relations. Also sometimes for getting certain things done with an insane backwoods Repub congress.

    On the other hand, Hillary would have been a stronger leader. Like a "nice" Putin.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Um, Ron Paul is actually probably an overly idealistic INFP. If you'd like to know why, just ask.
    Ron Paul didn't invent libertarianism. No one did. Its principles are simply unproven theoretical logic based on game theory which is naturally predominant in the minds of Ti users, especially STP's.

    ie: if we introduce a second federal reserve, inflation will decrease as another currency competes. Most of this isn't proven in history (some bits are proven true), its all experimental Ti logic.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    You just don't appreciate Ti in its utter political manifestation.
    I dont see how you're reason for voting for the libertarians is to break the supposed "one party" system in Washington, the libertarians actually epitomise the supposed ideology of the system you're talking about.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I fall within the mildly disappointed category. I didn't expect nearly as much of him as a lot of people, and on foreign policy he gave pretty much exactly what he said, which I disagreed with in spite of voting for him. I do think he's gone a little lamer on economy and social spending than I had even expected from the campaign, though.

    Bottom line; no where near as atrocious as anything the Republicans have offered in the past two elections.
    Which is true but its a shameful state of affairs for democracy that the best people vote for is "not as bad as the alternative", I would say or think in any case.

    The thing is that the right wing in the US is still the source of opinion forming, even when democrats are in office, sometimes especially when democrats are in office and they have capitalised upon their opposition being in office by using it to frame the debate. For instance despite the fact that most people may feel let down by Obama or that he has turned out to be more moderate than they expected he is still typified as a militant by most of the right wing.

    The whole ideological axis of the world has changed and I think as a result even potentially world changing events, such as the unmistakeable corruption, fraud and destabilising greed revealed by the economic crisis and near collapse of the entire financial sector in the western world, can be neutralised so easily. I consider that whole episode to have been akin to the events which permitted FDR in the US and similar forces in the UK to restructure their economies.

    Consider that in the UK and US (I'm talking english speaking parts of the world) the narrative is still that the public "broke the bank" with its voting for "bread and circuses" and it was all unsustainable anyway, yet it was not social spending which created the deficits which exist presently, social spending wouldnt ever, ever have gotten into that sort of league at all, its the deficit spending required by the uber rich to keep them in the condition which they are used to and rescue them from the consequences of their own actions and design which a problem.

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