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  • have changed allegiances

    12 33.33%
  • have not

    15 41.67%
  • am not American

    9 25.00%
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  1. #31

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    I'm not American but I think this question is interesting, I have voted for a variety of left wing parties and while I've heard a lot which has influenced my political opinion, or rather clarify them for me, I definitely have never heard anything which has influenced my vote.

    I havent ever voted "against the grain" (always left wing, sometimes irish nationalist/community background votes), even when I've been told it would be a good tactical move. I wouldnt often vote for a moderate, against a militant candidate I support, in order for a moderate to win against a moderate or militant opponent of another political persuasion.

    This said I'm beginning to think that there's been more and more of a political consensus globally within the UK and NI and ROI, a convergence, it is a total alternative to the so called "liberal consensus" which Thatcher and Reagan believed they had overthrown, I didnt really consider that a consensus or a liberal one, in any sense of the word liberal. I think its true that there were political conservatives prior to Thatcher who were interested in the politics uber economics or personal interest or their core constituency of rich special interests but I think even they were inclined towards many of the destabilising changes for reasons of background that Thatcher and Reagan were.

    Although now I think there is just a self-serving cross party elite, there's neoliberal capitalism and neoliberal capitalism lite, often not even lite, just another brand like Pepsi and Coca Cola but even more than that the political bosses want to be political bosses and nothing more, that's why the vote through massive tax funded kick backs to friends in the city and then provided with reprieves from instability in the economy for long enough they vote themselves massive pay rises, which they in turn go back to their buddies in the city to try and invest for personal gain. This is how and why privatisation and any other political policy dreamt off will never improve or simply maintain existing services, its not even for that purpose. Its all about funnelling massive amounts of public money into private pockets, a little for themselves a lot for their paymasters in the city.

    Anyway, I think that of the mainstream parties the supposedly "left wing" ones the world over ARE the moderate, "reasonable" face of neo-liberalism, the so called conservatives are the former militant tendencies of the same parties. I think the militant tendencies of the left wing still exist, they are relics for the most part, a mix of naivette and lunacy. So there's no way I'd vote for the "other side", it sickens me enough to have to vote for the supposedly left wing parties.

  2. #32
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    Everyone should vote libertarian even if they disagree with libertarian ideas. If libs get 5% of the vote, we get an official 3rd party represented in congress which will put an end to the two party system, which more or less acts as 1 party these days anyway.

  3. #33
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Everyone should vote libertarian even if they disagree with libertarian ideas. If libs get 5% of the vote, we get an official 3rd party represented in congress.
    Not quite. Other parties have made it to 5%. The problem is they fail to keep making it to 5%. And on the rare occasion that a well spring of popular support ushers in a third party, it just kills one of the existing two and takes us back to a two party system. The system is totally stacked against a third party. There's pretty much no hope until electoral and campaign laws are changed.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Not quite. Other parties have made it to 5%. The problem is they fail to keep making it to 5%. And on the rare occasion that a well spring of popular support ushers in a third party, it just kills one of the existing two and takes us back to a two party system. The system is totally stacked against a third party. There's pretty much no hope until electoral and campaign laws are changed.
    hmm...

    well libertarians call for small government, so I'd assume they'd take over the republican party if that's the case. I think that's their goal anyhow.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    hmm...

    well libertarians call for small government, so I'd assume they'd take over the republican party if that's the case. I think that's their goal anyhow.
    yep. I did a lot of grassroots work in Florida last year for Paul's campaign, many of our group went on to be elected as chairpersons in the state GOP and are trying to work from the inside like in Iowa, Nevada and other places, to varying degrees of success. I do agree that the 3rd party route is too easily shut out versus manipulating the GOP laws to the more libertarian advantage.

    Rand Paul is slightly more palpable to the GOP palate than Ron was, so who knows. But with the massive amount of sheeple the other candidates are pulling... I'm hesitant to be too optimistic this go around.

    To answer the family voting question: yes many vote "straight ticket" (supporting any candidate of one party) in the same way their parents vote, especially here in Texas. But there is a growing segment of the younger crowd who are more aware of the hypocrisy in both major platforms.

  6. #36
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    hmm...

    well libertarians call for small government, so I'd assume they'd take over the republican party if that's the case. I think that's their goal anyhow.
    Well, that's no good for me. I hate to say it, but I think I might join in an unholy alliance with more conventional Republicans if it were necessary to hold back libertarians. I hope that never has to be the case.
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  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Everyone should vote libertarian even if they disagree with libertarian ideas. If libs get 5% of the vote, we get an official 3rd party represented in congress which will put an end to the two party system, which more or less acts as 1 party these days anyway.
    I'd rather join some satanic cult. Wait, it amounts to the same thing.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'd rather join some satanic cult. Wait, it amounts to the same thing.
    You just don't appreciate Ti in its utter political manifestation.

  9. #39
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Anyway, I think that of the mainstream parties the supposedly "left wing" ones the world over ARE the moderate, "reasonable" face of neo-liberalism, the so called conservatives are the former militant tendencies of the same parties. I think the militant tendencies of the left wing still exist, they are relics for the most part, a mix of naivette and lunacy. So there's no way I'd vote for the "other side", it sickens me enough to have to vote for the supposedly left wing parties.
    Pretty much this. I don't understand why people are so shocked that Obama turned out not to be a revolutionary. If people had listened to the debates, it was clear he wasn't the firebrand radical people thought he would be. Of course, people just called me "cynical" for pointing that out at the time.

    I'd like anyone here who is upset because they "didn't get the change they voted for" dig up the democratic primaries in Youtube. Him and Hillary, the two people at the top of the race, were the most moderate of the bunch.

    And yes, his answers to questions about the Patriot Act and the like were lukewarm at best.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  10. #40
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Pretty much this. I don't understand why people are so shocked that Obama turned out not to be a revolutionary. If people had listened to the debates, it was clear he wasn't the firebrand radical people thought he would be. Of course, people just called me "cynical" for pointing that out at the time.

    I'd like anyone here who is upset because they "didn't get the change they voted for" dig up the democratic primaries in Youtube. Him and Hillary, the two people at the top of the race, were the most moderate of the bunch.

    And yes, his answers to questions about the Patriot Act and the like were lukewarm at best.
    I fall within the mildly disappointed category. I didn't expect nearly as much of him as a lot of people, and on foreign policy he gave pretty much exactly what he said, which I disagreed with in spite of voting for him. I do think he's gone a little lamer on economy and social spending than I had even expected from the campaign, though.

    Bottom line; no where near as atrocious as anything the Republicans have offered in the past two elections.
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