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  • have changed allegiances

    12 33.33%
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    15 41.67%
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Results 101 to 106 of 106

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, this Ti dom considers libertarianism a mess.
    how so

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Everything you said before this was a bundle of disconnected facts worthy of ignoring and completely irrelevant. however I agree with this last paragraph.

    Yes, to those who are ignorant of economics, libertarianism relies on emotion to sway the idiots. Unfortunately that's how it works. But a true libertarian, such as myself, understands the libertarian ideal, which ultimately is a lot of rational which can be conjured on the fly. I understand the basic formula, the game theory behind it all. Though I haven't really spent much time fleshing out the flaws other than recognizing the sheer experimental nature of it all.
    Well, if you cant understand it I'm sure it seems like disconnected facts.

    I was not stating that anyone ignorant of economic facts would feel the emotional appeal of libertarianism, like your post has made it seem, just to clarify if you need to be ignorant of the economic facts and instead arrive at your judgements as a result of emotional appeals in order to be a libertarian. That was entirely my point.

    I dont know what basic formula you're talking about but I'm familiar with a lot of formulas, stretching back to Adam Smith, they have a pretty tenuous and hopeful link to reality, most of the academics have settled upon "at least its not socialism" and deploying a "red menace" idea at this stage because they're too lazy for any real analysis. So far as game theory goes it posits that co-operation is as natural a thing as competition, even more so, that being the case I fail to see its revelence.

  3. #103
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    I mostly vote Republican. I haven't really changed significantly in recent years; I used to be strongly neoconservative however, and now align more with libertarianism (really, classical liberalism, but I understand most don't get the difference). Practically speaking, my voting hasn't changed a whole lot because I think the LP is for the most part unelectable, but when it comes to specific ideas and when voting on initiatives, referenda, etc. I have changed quite a bit. I sympathize with aspects of the left, particularly the "true" anarchist-style socialists like Noam Chomsky, and have some respect for the Green Party, but most likely could never vote for a Democrat. Progressives like to claim they value freedom, but they really just value authority; they're a lot like neoconservatives in that regard. I think people overemphasize the differences between right and left when its really about authority vs freedom. Both wings represent both sides of that coin.
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  4. #104
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Do people really vote mostly along family/community lines in the US? Is there an expectation that you should stick to the political beliefs that you were raised in?
    I think so, at least somewhat. I grew up in Metro Detroit. You are spoon fed a very democrat, pro-union diet from day one. I never had a political preference, I voted mixed for a long time. I have voted Republican in recent years but I would only identify with conservatives when it comes to fiscal issues, not much else but that is what is important to me at this time.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    how so
    Ha! Were to begin.

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    I mostly vote Republican. I haven't really changed significantly in recent years; I used to be strongly neoconservative however, and now align more with libertarianism (really, classical liberalism, but I understand most don't get the difference). Practically speaking, my voting hasn't changed a whole lot because I think the LP is for the most part unelectable, but when it comes to specific ideas and when voting on initiatives, referenda, etc. I have changed quite a bit. I sympathize with aspects of the left, particularly the "true" anarchist-style socialists like Noam Chomsky, and have some respect for the Green Party, but most likely could never vote for a Democrat. Progressives like to claim they value freedom, but they really just value authority; they're a lot like neoconservatives in that regard. I think people overemphasize the differences between right and left when its really about authority vs freedom. Both wings represent both sides of that coin.
    I used to think that maybe in my teens, no politicians value authority because authority involves responsibility and accountability and government has been in complete retreat from both, they'd prefer the private sector to take care of that and avoid all the litigation and costs involved.

    The private sector has had less concern with responsibility and acocuntability, pretty much because they dont need to deal with it, the bail outs to the banks proved that, no nationalised industry ever received a bail out for their unashamed cluster fucks like the banks, and when the banks became defacto government property the bonuses didnt stop, they didnt received a pay freeze like the rest of the government employees. Nope. They got a sweet deal, as sweet at politicians.

    I dont believe that its authority versus freedom, freedom depends upon legitimate authority in order to exist at all and a lot of the threats to freedom, from the state or elsewhere, exist as a consequence of failures in authority.

    A lot of the time failures in authority exist because there are persons in positions of authority who do not wish to exercise authority at all, a lot of people think this stems from the sixties and the hippies and lingering sorts of anarchism.

    Some of the zeitgheist is the same, I mean remarkably similar, but I dont think that it can be reduced to that, its a dilemma old as time itself but with apparently less and less of a popular, public or social authority, less "superego", then there is weaker institutional authority and greater ambivalence or unthinking acceptance or support of it.

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