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  1. #51
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    This is getting boring.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #52
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    This is getting boring.
    Then I'll simplify my last question. Who should first amendment rights apply to and who should they not apply to?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #53
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Then I'll simplify my last question. Who should first amendment rights apply to and who should they not apply to?
    Homo sapiens, and only directly. Organizations (corporations/unions/etc) have shown themselves to be poor stewards with the rights and power they have been granted.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #54
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Homo sapiens, and only directly. Organizations (corporations/unions/etc) have shown themselves to be poor stewards with the rights and power they have been granted.
    Stewards of what?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #55
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Homo sapiens, and only directly. Organizations (corporations/unions/etc) have shown themselves to be poor stewards with the rights and power they have been granted.
    Stewards of... the economy? or?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #56
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    This is boring and you're being deliberately obtuse.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #57
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-17116882
    Dolphins should be treated as non-human "persons", with their rights to life and liberty respected, scientists meeting in Canada have been told.

    Experts in philosophy, conservation and animal behaviour want support for a Declaration of Rights for Cetaceans.

    They believe dolphins and whales are sufficiently intelligent to justify the same ethical considerations as humans.

    Recognising their rights would mean an end to whaling and their captivity, or their use in entertainment.

    "Science has shown that individuality - consciousness, self-awareness - is no longer a unique human property. That poses all kinds of challenges.”

    The move was made at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) in Vancouver, Canada, the world's biggest science conference.

    It is based on years of research that has shown dolphins and whales have large, complex brains and a human-like level of self-awareness.

    This has led the experts to conclude that although non-human, dolphins and whales are "people" in a philosophical sense, which has far-reaching implications.

    Ethics expert Prof Tom White, from Loyola Marymount University, Los Angeles, author of In Defence of Dolphins: The New Moral Frontier, said dolphins were "non-human persons".

    "A person needs to be an individual. If individuals count, then the deliberate killing of individuals of this sort is ethically the equivalent of deliberately killing a human being.

    India has declared dolphins to be non-human persons -
    http://www.dw.de/dolphins-gain-unpre...dia/a-16834519
    Of course consciousness isn't unique to humans. What a stupid idea that was.

    I'm for anything that prevents the exploitation of animals, but the logic here is fail.

    We don't treat humans preferentially because they are more intelligent than other animals. If this were the only criteria, it would be morally acceptable to treat stupid people as "animals". We treat humans preferentially because we ARE human and we think we're the shit. And we treat preferentially all those attributes we see in other species that remind us of ourselves. This is not morality. It's human chauvinism.

    Personhood implies person-ality. Therefore, everything with a personality should really be treated as a person... But that would be too inconvenient. Since we don't eat dolphins we can give ourselves a pat on the back for conferring upon them the "privilege" of personhood. Meanwhile the dolphins are saying : "Fuck off, we're better than you. Oh, and thanks for all the fish."

    ".
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #58
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    This is boring and you're being deliberately obtuse.
    And you're being evasive. WTH is a steward, and what does a steward do? Why should corporations be stewards?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #59
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Of course consciousness isn't unique to humans. What a stupid idea that was.

    I'm for anything that prevents the exploitation of animals, but the logic here is fail.

    We don't treat humans preferentially because they are more intelligent than other animals. If this were the only criteria, it would be morally acceptable to treat stupid people as "animals". We treat humans preferentially because we ARE human and we think we're the shit. And we treat preferentially all those attributes we see in other species that remind us of ourselves. This is not morality. It's human chauvinism.

    Personhood implies person-ality. Therefore, everything with a personality should really be treated as a person... But that would be too inconvenient. Since we don't eat dolphins we can give ourselves a pat on the back for conferring upon them the "privilege" of personhood. Meanwhile the dolphins are saying : "Fuck off, we're better than you. Oh, and thanks for all the fish."
    Dogs have personalities, should dogs be given the same rights as humans?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #60
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Dogs have personalities, should dogs be given the same rights as humans?
    You can't give anything rights. They are intrinsic. You can only enshrine them in law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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