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  1. #41
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    "the legal concept that a corporation may be recognized as an individual in the eyes of the law." That's exactly What I said.

    As for corporations being "people," consider the Huffington Post article which you dismissed with the wave of a hand. -

    "While corporations may enjoy the benefits of being considered a person, they don't feel constrained by the responsibilities and obligations that most people feel. Most people, through social convention or enlightened self interest, usually care about the consequences of their actions on others. Many companies do not, or view such considerations as tangential."

    From a purely philosophical perspective, corporations AREN'T persons because they can't make moral decisions. A person is, by the very definition of "person," a moral agent, not an entity behind which CEOs can protect their assets.
    You clearly have a reading comprehension issue because earlier I said "Unfortunately, it's true under the law". Should a superior INTP such as yourself need any more explanation as to why your argument is stupid? I guess we're about to find out.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #42
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You clearly have a reading comprehension issue because earlier I said "Unfortunately, it's true under the law". Should a superior INTP such as yourself need any more explanation as to why your argument is stupid? I guess we're about to find out.
    Why are you type-baiting me constantly if you think the MBTI is bullshit?

    The key word in your quote is "unfortunately," not "under the law." That's why I quoted the HuffPost article. "Unfortunately" is some kind of damning judgment upon the very idea of a corporation, not just considered a legal individual, but qua corporation.

    'Corporations are institutions, created by society to fulfill a purpose. There is much debate as to what that purpose is. Most CEOs and Corporate Boards will say their primary purpose is to "create shareholder value." For public corporations this means to make money and increase stock price.'
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/don-ta...b_1888885.html
    Instead of simply hand-waving away your comment, instead I ask, What's so unfortunate about corporations being considered individuals or people or whatever you want to call them?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #43
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Why are you type-baiting me constantly if you think the MBTI is bullshit?
    I get annoyed when people start judging others on this forum based upon type. One of the ways I react to it is by turning it around. I don't have to accept MBTI "theory" (which is really just an unfalsifiable hypothesis, hence BS) in order to know the type stereotypes and to use them against people, like you.

    The key word in your quote is "unfortunately," not "under the law." That's why I quoted the HuffPost article. "Unfortunately" is some kind of damning judgment upon the very idea of a corporation, not just considered a legal individual, but qua corporation.

    'Corporations are institutions, created by society to fulfill a purpose. There is much debate as to what that purpose is. Most CEOs and Corporate Boards will say their primary purpose is to "create shareholder value." For public corporations this means to make money and increase stock price.'
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/don-ta...b_1888885.html
    Instead of simply hand-waving away your comment, instead I ask, What's so unfortunate about corporations being considered individuals or people or whatever you want to call them?
    You should have just asked that in the first place instead of constructing such a weak, and frankly un-INTPish...more INFPish than INTPish, argument. Corporations are protected under the first amendment, which means they can influence politics. You may not find that unfortunate, but I do. And yes, that's a value judgment. It's my inferior Fi at work.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #44
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I get annoyed when people start judging others on this forum based upon type. One of the ways I react to it is by turning it around. I don't have to accept MBTI "theory" (which is really just an unfalsifiable hypothesis, hence BS) in order to know the type stereotypes and to use them against people, like you.
    When did I judge you? I pointed out that imputing motives is very J of you - not that there's anything wrong with that!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You should have just asked that in the first place instead of constructing such a weak, and frankly un-INTPish...more INFPish than INTPish, argument. Corporations are protected under the first amendment, which means they can influence politics. You may not find that unfortunate, but I do. And yes, that's a value judgment. It's my inferior Fi at work.
    I don't believe in this inferior Fi bullshit. Why are you hiding behind a type if you think it's bullshit?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
    "Buckley v. Valeo (1976) upheld limits on campaign contributions, but held that spending money to influence elections is protected speech by the First Amendment."

    Sounds like more corporatism, which I don't believe in.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #45
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
    "The corporate personhood aspect of the campaign finance debate turns on Buckley v. Valeo (1976) and Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission (2010): Buckley ruled that political spending is protected by the First Amendment right to free speech, while Citizens United ruled that corporate political spending is protected, holding that corporations have a First Amendment right to free speech. Opponents of these decisions have argued that if all corporate rights under the Constitution were abolished, it would clear the way for greater regulation of campaign spending and contributions. It should be noted, however, that neither decision relied on the concept of corporate personhood, and the Buckley decision in particular deals with the rights of individuals and political committees, not corporations."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #46
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    When did I judge you? I pointed out that imputing motives is very J of you - not that there's anything wrong with that!
    LOL, you're delusional if you don't think you were judging. By merely mentioning my judging and the fact that the type I have listed has a "J" you were, in fact, also judging. But to a P like yourself, judging is a bad thing so I can see why you would find it offensive.

    I don't believe in this inferior Fi bullshit. Why are you hiding behind a type if you think it's bullshit?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
    "Buckley v. Valeo (1976) upheld limits on campaign contributions, but held that spending money to influence elections is protected speech by the First Amendment."

    Sounds like more corporatism, which I don't believe in.
    Hiding? I'm mocking you. Then again, you're an INTP and social awareness is not your strongest trait. I'll try to be more explicit in the future.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #47
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
    "The corporate personhood aspect of the campaign finance debate turns on Buckley v. Valeo (1976) and Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission (2010): Buckley ruled that political spending is protected by the First Amendment right to free speech, while Citizens United ruled that corporate political spending is protected, holding that corporations have a First Amendment right to free speech. Opponents of these decisions have argued that if all corporate rights under the Constitution were abolished, it would clear the way for greater regulation of campaign spending and contributions. It should be noted, however, that neither decision relied on the concept of corporate personhood, and the Buckley decision in particular deals with the rights of individuals and political committees, not corporations."
    Right, they didn't rule on that because it was already established and unnecessary. The Supreme Court does that all the time. What happened with DOMA (expanding the ruling beyond the case, itself) is an exception to the general rule.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #48
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    LOL, you're delusional if you don't think you were judging. By merely mentioning my judging and the fact that the type I have listed has a "J" you were, in fact, also judging. But to a P like yourself, judging is a bad thing so I can see why you would find it offensive.
    Let me see if I have this straight. You're saying that I, as a P, was being a J, and that being a J is a bad thing according to a P although it was I being a J instead of a P in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Hiding? I'm mocking you. Then again, you're an INTP and social awareness is not your strongest trait. I'll try to be more explicit in the future.
    On the contrary, lack of social awareness is my greatest strength.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #49
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Let me see if I have this straight. You're saying that I, as P, was being a J, and that being a J is a bad thing according to a P although it was I being a J instead of a P in this case.
    Whichever interpretation annoys you the most, that's the one I meant.

    On the contrary, lack of social awareness is my greatest strength.
    If you say so.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #50
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Whichever interpretation annoys you the most, that's the one I meant.


    If you say so.
    Let's imagine that I, as a J, being a P in another universe, based all my future judgments on my first impression of you. Would you then be annoyed, or even care, that I, as a P in another universe, was being a J in this universe, or whichever universe, and that corporate personhood is bullshit when first amendment rights, which you perhaps don't believe in except as it applies to those from your own political belief system, and that first amendment rights should be stripped away from those who don't practice your political belief system, is wrong?

    Oh, I'm being such a naughty INTP these days!
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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