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  1. #21
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I love how passionate everyone got about this trial, as if, by listening to opinions on the news and reading articles on the internet they know the guilt or innocence of someone.

    It's hard to imagine a scarier prospect that having your guilt and punishment decided by the uneducated masses that were just stirred up by people looking to capitalize on a situation.

    The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. - H.L. Mencken
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  2. #22
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    It's hard to imagine a scarier prospect that having your guilt and punishment decided by the uneducated masses that were just stirred up by people looking to capitalize on a situation.
    Unforunately, I think that's the situation you're in the moment your fate is in the hands of a jury.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #23
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    In short, a complete lack of critical thinking. Expect more of it, until there are some major changes in how people are raised and educated.
    Yes. Zimmerman lacked critical thinking. You are correct.

  4. #24
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I love how passionate everyone got about this trial, as if, by listening to opinions on the news and reading articles on the internet they know the guilt or innocence of someone.

    It's hard to imagine a scarier prospect that having your guilt and punishment decided by the uneducated masses that were just stirred up by people looking to capitalize on a situation.
    Actually, I agree with this to some extent. While I don't think trials should be kept secret, I don't understand why more isn't done to protect the privacy of the person involved. This means that the case follows the person around for the rest of their life, even if they are acquitted. I don't agree with the outcome of Zimmerman's trial, but as a matter of principle, aliases should be used. Perhaps standard pseudonyms, (like Alan Smithee in the movie industry) could be used for media dissemination (for both plaintiffs and defendants).

    For what it's worth, I have tried to avoid op-eds about this or any analysis by "experts."

    I hate op-eds in general, actually, and I think the rise of opinion based journalism is an unfortunate development.. it seems as though people are packaged easy-to-digest opinions that don't require too much thought.

    Usually, they "experts" are just someone that's paid a lot of money to do exactly what we're all doing here for free.... They don't appear to have any unique insights that ought to come out of detailed study, and seem to get marching orders from political parties. They're more interested in pleasing whoever is paying them then attempting to reach anything resembling the truth.) If you're claiming someone's an "expert", I'd like to see their credentials, and it should involve something other than a political think tank. If they're an "expert" on the Middle East, how much more do they know about the Middle East than I do?

    Everything I'm saying here applies equally in my mind to the right and the left, before someone trots out some "but MSNBC does it too" line. Yeah, they do, and I have a problem with them, also. Propaganda is propaganda.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  5. #25
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Alright, I can't resist bringing this up.

    There are people that would want to take the law into their own hands or be vigilantes in some sense if they think that justice was not served. They won’t respect a verdict, no matter how it was reached, and they will always present a threat to George and his family,” said Robert Zimmerman Jr.

    That's George Zimmerman's brother. Left to his own devices, he will probably never find anything funny in that statement.

    Also, we have this piece of gold.

    "Although counsel was advised to leave race out of the discussion during trial, during the post-trial press conference, Zimmerman's defense attorney, Mark O'Mara, remarked that if his client were black, 'he never would've been charged with a crime.'"

    Thank goodness for people like Mark O'Mara, fighting the good fight against black privilege in America.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #26
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    What kind of thing would you be expecting? A silly law being applied appropriately does not make it any less silly. While the legal system may not have a way for dealing with silly laws, that doesn't mean they aren't silly laws.
    Precisely what silly laws are those? The fact that its not illegal for a concerned citizen and neighborhood watchmen to (perhaps unwisely) follow a stranger in the neighborhood who matches the physical description of the perpetrators in a long series of break-ins? That a person carried a concealed weapon? That a person who is physically attacked has the right to defend themselves with lethal force, if they reasonably feared death or great bodily harm? That it is necessary to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? That initiating a series of events in which a tragic misunderstanding resulted in a person's death is not itself a crime?

    What precisely is your objection to any of the relevant laws, and what alternatives do you propose?

  7. #27
    Member trancemode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I love how passionate everyone got about this trial, as if, by listening to opinions on the news and reading articles on the internet they know the guilt or innocence of someone.

    It's hard to imagine a scarier prospect that having your guilt and punishment decided by the uneducated masses that were just stirred up by people looking to capitalize on a situation.
    Couldn’t have put it better myself, so I won’t try. People apparently don’t understand that a “not guilty” (beyond a reasonable doubt) verdict doesn’t mean the jury found Zimmerman innocent or to be a great guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Unforunately, I think that's the situation you're in the moment your fate is in the hands of a jury.
    So you would rather be tried by the mob outside a courtroom, or don’t see any difference between the two? Maybe they should give defendents a choice...

  8. #28
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trancemode View Post
    So you would rather be tried by the mob outside a courtroom, or don’t see any difference between the two? Maybe they should give defendents a choice...
    A mob outside the courtroom would also presumably be open to do whatever it wants on a whim without an other authorities holding it back within the law. I'd pick the jury. But that doesn't mean the jury will be much more competent or fair, just restrained.

    I think I'd prefer defending myself before a panel of investigating judges than depending on a war between two attorneys to persuade a jury.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #29
    Member trancemode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    depending on a war between two attorneys to persuade a jury.
    Unfortunately, that’s what it comes down to. A trial ultimately is not about whether a defendant is “really” guilty or innocent. And quality defense is like quality health care: it ain't cheap.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I think I'd prefer defending myself before a panel of investigating judges.
    I would pay cash money to watch that.


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