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  1. #101
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Hang on, I have to dig up some heretofore unknown example of Trayvon Martin's big heartedness.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  2. #102
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Hang on, I have to dig up some heretofore unknown example of Trayvon Martin's big heartedness.
    I encourage you to do so. I think, when attempting to ascertain the likelihood of a person resorting to violence, it is important to take a holistic view of the person, along with the circumstances surrounding the event. For whatever reason, most of what I've heard keeps pointing to Martin being more likely to resort of violence than Zimmerman, and it bothers me that my perceptions seem to be so different than those from people I generally respect and admire. I feel as though I must be missing something.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    I liked this post.
    I don't go that far, but always leave my hands at ten and two on the wheel, and treat officers with the utmost respect regardless of how they are treating me.

    I was a speed demon in High School, and had a few tickets.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    What sort of message does the verdict of this case send to black households? That black minors shouldn't even look remotely suspicious around potential law-enforcement? (No reaching in ones pockets, no wearing hoodies, no doing anything that would be disregarded if the minor was white?)
    Given what the evidence has shown, the lesson would be not to hit people.

  5. #105
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Still seems like one of those cases where the letter of the law was followed and the spirit of the law was broken.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Still seems like one of those cases where the letter of the law was followed and the spirit of the law was broken.
    If Martin did not solely start the physical fight then you are correct.

  7. #107
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    If Martin did not solely start the physical fight then you are correct.
    Yeah. I don't disagree with the verdict because I understand it in technicality - I don't feel like it can really be disagreed with. He did have a fair trial.

    But I do think it seems fairly clear from everything discussed that Zimmerman took action to a level that was beyond civilian duty... I am surprised he was not penalized for that. I don't know too much about legal specifics, but in terms of what I know, I would have thought that involuntary manslaughter would have been a more appropriate verdict, because at least it would acknowledge culpability, though unintentional.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Yeah. I don't disagree with the verdict because I understand it in technicality - I don't feel like it can really be disagreed with. He did have a fair trial.

    But I do think it seems fairly clear from everything discussed that Zimmerman took action to a level that was beyond civilian duty... I am surprised he was not penalized for that. I would have considered involuntary manslaughter a more appropriate verdict.
    I would go back to the fact that the physical confrontation is what resulted in the use of deadly force. Yes GZ getting out of the car is partially responsible for causing the fight and I think his liability should be for helping cause the fight when he didn't need to, but the escalation to deadly once the fight had occurred is not his fault, it's the fault of Trayvon for not stopping his assault.

    I'd be happy to discuss finding GZ guilty of causing the fight, but only if Trayvon did not strike him without any provocation except for being followed.

    Zimmermans actions helped lead to the fight, but hitting a prostrate man in the face for 40 seconds is what lead to the shooting.

  9. #109
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    I'm going to open this can of worms.

    Personally, I think it's a pretty screwed up society where nobody does anything to investigate or intervene.

    I'll say it again - based on the audio tape of hearing this guy scream for help for nearly 45 seconds (and that's just what you can hear on the police audio, probably close to a minute of screaming), I think it's amazing that nobody did anything except for call the police and hide in their houses instead of going outside to help.

    At least get a flashlight and shine it from afar, or start screaming out your window in a deep, scary voice: "THE POLICE ARE COMING STOP AND GET OUT OF HERE", or anything.

    I understand there is unknown risk in doing that sort of thing, and situations can be more complex then they seem sometimes, but the audio sounds like someone is being murdered and is begging for help for the better part of a minute.

    If you want to go through the coulda woulda shoulda's, Trayvon Martin would probably be alive today if people didn't just hide in their houses and wait for the gunshot.

    There, I said it.


    I'm not advocating recklessly putting yourself in harms way, but there are ways to manage risk. Including just a handful of people yelling out their windows to say get the hell out of here or you'll be arrested.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  10. #110
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

    The bystander effect is a social psychological phenomenon that refers to cases in which individuals do not offer any means of help to a victim when other people are present. The probability of help is inversely related to the number of bystanders. In other words, the greater the number of bystanders, the less likely it is that any one of them will help. Several variables help to explain why the bystander effect occurs. These variables include: ambiguity, cohesiveness and diffusion of responsibility.
    I don't know what I would do if I was there, but I sure hope I'd get up and do something.

    I think you can train yourself out of these natural psychological effects by understanding them and with mental rehearsal, realizing that even if it feels ambiguous you should stay focused on what you, as an individual, are capable of safely doing in a given situation (including getting other people to assist in an immediate way).
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

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