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  1. #61
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    Zimmerman could have done as little as grab the sleeve of his jacket. Once that happens, he was obliged to whoop him the way he did.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Zimmerman could have done as little as grab the sleeve of his jacket. Once that happens, he was obliged to whoop him the way he did.
    I guess I need to remember that the next time someone grabs my jacket.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I guess I need to remember that the next time someone grabs my jacket.
    Oh come on, put it in perspective.

  4. #64
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    If that person is following you with a gun, I think you're justified in doing whatever you need to do to neutralize the threat and get away. And I'm a total pacifist.

  5. #65
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    The point was to iterate that blame cannot be placed on him whatsoever for making a decision to walk outside. The argument is reminiscent of men observing that "she was asking for it" by wearing revealing clothing.
    It definitely is. The same logic is behind it. It just drives me crazy that people don't think of what's illogical, but common sense in the times. The truth is that I cannot wear anything I want. I should NOT have to deal with guys heckling me, attacking me, etc. But I really can't. It has been proven in my social life time and time again that it is a total war zone outside if I dress a certain way. I don't like it, and I struggled for a long long time with cross dressing deliberately to discourage men from attacking me or crossing my personal boundaries just because I'm dressing in something I personally like. But that doesn't mean it won't happen just because I don't like it or agree with it.

    I don't mind dressing up when seeing old, adjusted friends, family members, and if I am out with someone on a date. They're about the only times I CAN dress up without fear of someone making a situation awkward, or having to physically resist men. (It isn't like World War Z out there or anything, but it truly is bad enough that those are the only times I can dress up.) I usually use my guy friends as convenient excuses to dress up when it will appear to strangers that we are dating for the sake of being able to dress up at all. Sad.

    It may be dark at 7:30PM, but let's put it into perspective: Many people don't even get out of work until 6PM, restaurants typically don't close until nine, fast food joints until mindnight or later... It really shouldn't even be something to think about in regards to Trayvon's guilt or innocence of action.
    It doesn't have anything to do with this guilt or innocence. I'm sorry if it seemed as if I implied that. I meant that it just drives me crazy that people walk around, at night, by themselves, with no light sources, and along roadways where the lights are dim or broken, etc. These are safety procedures taught to kids during Halloween for Christ's sake. It is NOT his fault that the guy followed and approached him. At all. But, how much pain could have been avoided if he had simply followed well lit paths and sidewalks? If he had carried a flashlight? Or decided to walk with co-workers or friends? I don't know what he was walking home from.. I'm just saying these are safety precautions one takes whenever possible.

    I do feel I kind of cherry picked your post. I should let you know I agreed with most of it - the largest factor of this confrontation was probably a battle of egos.
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  6. #66
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Ready for this story to die/rest.

  7. #67
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    It would seem odd if stand your ground laws only apply to people who survive. Had Martin survived, I imagine any injury he inflicted upon Zimmerman would have seemed reasonable in the context of his situation. But with Zimmerman being the only man to walk away from the scene, somehow the SYG arguments are being made for him.
    Last edited by Magic Poriferan; 07-11-2013 at 08:34 PM. Reason: I can't werd goodz.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    It definitely is. The same logic is behind it. It just drives me crazy that people don't think of what's illogical, but common sense in the times. The truth is that I cannot wear anything I want. I should NOT have to deal with guys heckling me, attacking me, etc. But I really can't. It has been proven in my social life time and time again that it is a total war zone outside if I dress a certain way. I don't like it, and I struggled for a long long time with cross dressing deliberately to discourage men from attacking me or crossing my personal boundaries just because I'm dressing in something I personally like. But that doesn't mean it won't happen just because I don't like it or agree with it.

    I don't mind dressing up when seeing old, adjusted friends, family members, and if I am out with someone on a date. They're about the only times I CAN dress up without fear of someone making a situation awkward, or having to physically resist men. (It isn't like World War Z out there or anything, but it truly is bad enough that those are the only times I can dress up.) I usually use my guy friends as convenient excuses to dress up when it will appear to strangers that we are dating for the sake of being able to dress up at all. Sad.

    It doesn't have anything to do with this guilt or innocence. I'm sorry if it seemed as if I implied that. I meant that it just drives me crazy that people walk around, at night, by themselves, with no light sources, and along roadways where the lights are dim or broken, etc. These are safety procedures taught to kids during Halloween for Christ's sake. It is NOT his fault that the guy followed and approached him. At all. But, how much pain could have been avoided if he had simply followed well lit paths and sidewalks? If he had carried a flashlight? Or decided to walk with co-workers or friends? I don't know what he was walking home from.. I'm just saying these are safety precautions one takes whenever possible.
    That does suck. And no, it didn't really seem like that, I suppose. That's just where I took it

    It kind of struck home, for whatever reason, because lately I've been going on fifty mile bike excursions spanning the timeframes of 11pm-4am, and I get really paranoid about things while I'm out - gang members when I cross under overpasses, cops when I'm peddling through neighborhoods, all kinds of things I legitimately should not have to worry about simply because I am out and about at 'odd hours'.

    Again, that word, 'should'.

    No harm done over here!
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  9. #69
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    No, and that is what I was referencing earlier, regarding him enjoying the benefit of the technicalities of the situation.
    None of the evidence points to a scenario where zimmerman walked up to Martin in a friendly manner, and Martin randomly decided to attack him. That phone call has the attitude of someone who has already concluded that Martin is a threat, without any sense of doubt. There is no evidence that he was just investigating the situation. He had made his mind up, and was going to do something about the situation, damnit.

    On a side note, this is the kind of stuff I mean when I say that a "reliance on empiricism is paralysis." We may not have any proof that Zimmerman was responsible for the situation escalating. But looking at what we do know, it seems ridiculous to conclude anything else. We can't prove it though, so it's better to set a precedent and encourage others to harass people for "acting funny" so that we can all "be safe" from some over-hyped threat. We may as well just make it a law making it legal to shoot people if their hair is dyed funny colors.

    Meanwhile, it's supposed to a national tragedy every time some white girl is missing. Give me a fucking break.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    But looking at what we do know, it seems ridiculous to conclude anything else.
    Could you please explain?

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