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  1. #371
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle View Post
    Good article, indeed. Though I think the crux of it is here:

    When you have a society that takes at its founding the hatred and degradation of a people, when that society inscribes that degradation in its most hallowed document, and continues to inscribe hatred in its laws and policies, it is fantastic to believe that its citizens will derive no ill messaging.
    You know, it's a curious omission on my part. That it would slip my mind that this would have to be a spoken assumption at all to reach the conclusion that Coates arrives at is more indicative of where I'm coming from than a lapse in reading comprehension. Always good to have a Ti-user handy to help one keep it real.


    Yes, this was the justice system working as intended... a jury of his peers and all that. But racism is built into the system. It always was. And until we find some way to change our culture and change the system, things like this are going to keep happening.
    White Man Shoots And Kills Black Student In Florida After Argument Over Loud Music

    (CBS/AP) JACKSONVILLE, Fla. - A grand jury has indicted a 45-year-old Florida man on a first-degree murder charge in the death of a teenager following an argument over loud music coming from the teen's car.

    Michael David Dunn was initially charged with second-degree murder.

    Grand jurors also added three counts of attempted murder.

    Dunn is accused of the Nov. 23 shooting death of 17-year-old Jordan Davis at a Jacksonville gas station.

    Officials say Dunn parked next to the vehicle where Davis was sitting with three other teens. Dunn complained about the loud music and they started arguing. Dunn told police he thought he saw a gun and fired eight or nine shots into the vehicle because he felt threatened.

    Dunn and his girlfriend, who was inside the gas station during the shooting, drove away from the scene, police said. The 45-year-old had reportedly been driving to a hotel from his son's wedding when he stopped at the gas station.
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    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
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  2. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Moore View Post
    So you didn't finish, but should be considered an expert anyway?
    Compared to the other contributors in this thread, including you....

    Absofuckinglutely.

  3. #373
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The evidence supports Zimmerman's account of events.

    There were scuffs on Trayvons knuckles and damage to GZ's face and head.

    The only other mark on Trayvon was the 9mm slug to the sternum. Facts are stubborn things.
    Be that as it may, I would say it's pretty difficult to determine who initiated the physical aspect. There were only 2 people there, and one of them can't exactly tell his side of the story.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

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  4. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle View Post
    Be that as it may, I would say it's pretty difficult to determine who initiated the physical aspect. There were only 2 people there, and one of them can't exactly tell his side of the story.
    Welcome to law. The only indisputable evidence points to Trayvon starting it.

    What was the jury supposed to do, create a mental parallel universe wherein the evidence at hand is less dispositive of who started the physical fight than are their personal convictions and prejudices?

  5. #375
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    The void between Zimmerman speaking to the disaptcher and the point when it seems physical confrontation must have taken place is the most profound ambiguity in the case. It's what we don't know about in that time span which could make all the difference.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    You know, it's a curious omission on my part. That it would slip my mind that this would have to be a spoken assumption at all to reach the conclusion that Coates arrives at is more indicative of where I'm coming from than a lapse in reading comprehension. Always good to have a Ti-user handy to help one keep it real.

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    When Dunn is convicted, as I think he will be, will the media then claim that there is nothing wrong with self defense statutes?

  7. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Moore View Post
    So you didn't finish, but should be considered an expert anyway?
    Why should I consider your opinion on this case as anything but that of a layman?

  8. #378
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle View Post
    Well, I think the issue here is whether people (namely, the jury, but also the general public) believe that Martin did indeed initiate the physical aspect.
    Actually, from my understanding of the law, even this wasn't the issue. The law is premised such that what the jury had to determine was whether Zimmerman actually felt that a) his life was threatened or b) Martin would not relent if Zimmerman were to decide to extricate himself from the physical altercation between the two of them.

    b) is important because even if Zimmerman were the one who precipitated the confrontation, if he found things weren't going his way (aka he started losing the fight) and tried to back out, if Martin continued to engage him then Zimmerman was within his rights to shoot.

    Either point is problematic because what the jury was essentially ruling on was what Zimmerman was actually feeling the night of the confrontation. And unless they believed--beyond a shadow of a doubt--Zimmerman had no caused to feel threatened, then and only then could he be convicted.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
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  9. #379
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    When Dunn is convicted, as I think he will be, will the media then claim that there is nothing wrong with self defense statutes?
    Why would they?
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  10. #380
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    When Dunn is convicted, as I think he will be, will the media then claim that there is nothing wrong with self defense statutes?
    I'm frankly less concerned with the media's opinion of the statutes than the exceedingly troublesome situations that seem to crop up as a fact of them.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

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