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  1. #331
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Also, just so things are clear on the burden of proof the final jury instruction was that the jury had to find beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman WAS NOT acting in self defense in order to find him guilty of murder 2 or manslaughter.



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  2. #332
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Florida can't get anything right. This woman gets 20 years, yet Casey Anthony and George Zimmerman walk. I'm so glad I don't live in that cesspool anymore.
    Well Zimmerman I believe was innocent, but I'm pretty sure Casey Anthony was guilty. They literally did a second computer search for Casey Anothy's files after the trial and it turned out that she did several google searches on "How to drown your kids and get away with it".

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Is that the one where the guy shot the teen for loud music in their truck at a gas station because he thought he saw a shotgun?
    Yes, that's the one.

  3. #333
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I disagree. The police are merely given the duty to protect the peace rather than granted special powers (with the exception of the power to act on a warrant). For a very long time in America both the police and citizens have had the right to make arrests and carry weapons.
    Civilization has always rested on someone monopolizing violence. It's not a pretty way of putting it, but it's an accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    The centralization of power in a special class of citizens without adequate checks (like warrants) only leads to corruption which is pretty obvious to anyone that looks at what American police are up to.
    I didn't say anything about a total lack of checks.
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  4. #334
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Is that the one where the guy shot the teen for loud music in their truck at a gas station because he thought he saw a shotgun?
    Yeah...the Gate station down on Baymeadows and 9A (or around there). He then drove off and went to his home in Palm Coast.

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    Yeah...the Gate station down on Baymeadows and 9A (or around there). He then drove off and went to his home in Palm Coast.
    I have done literally no research on this one, but from my 30,000 ft view, that fucker is guilty as sin.

  6. #336
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I can count on a foreign publication to go balls out on its opinion.

    Open season on black boys after a verdict like this


    The killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin last year was tragic. But in the age of Obama the acquittal of George Zimmerman offers at least that clarity. For the salient facts in this case were not in dispute. On 26 February 2012 Martin was on his way home, minding his own business armed only with a can of iced tea and a bag of Skittles. Zimmerman pursued him, armed with a 9mm handgun, believing him to be a criminal. Martin resisted. They fought. Zimmerman shot him dead.

    Who screamed. Who was stronger. Who called whom what and when and why are all details to warm the heart of a cable news producer with 24 hours to fill. Strip them all away and the truth remains that Martin's heart would still be beating if Zimmerman had not chased him down and shot him.

    There is no doubt about who the aggressor was here. It appears that the only reason the two interacted at all, physically or otherwise, is that Zimmerman believed it was his civic duty to apprehend an innocent teenager who caused suspicion by his existence alone.

    ........

    But while the acquittal was shameful it was not a shock. It took more than six weeks after Martin's death for Zimmerman to be arrested and only then after massive pressure both nationally and locally. Those who dismissed this as a political trial (a peculiar accusation in the summer of Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden) should bear in mind that it was politics that made this case controversial.

    ........

    Since it was Zimmerman who stalked Martin, the question remains: what ground is a young black man entitled to and on what grounds may he defend himself? What version of events is there for that night in which Martin gets away with his life? Or is it open season on black boys after dark?
    I find the headline overly sensational, but I pretty much agree with the piece.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Considering the bias of @Magic Poriferan presuming I must be crazy or racist to reach the conclusions I have I would recommend he read the articles over at http://www.talkleft.com/ on the trial from leftwinger and defense attorney Jeralyn Merritt.
    Ugh. This is just the kind of thing I expect from you (and DiscoBiscuit as well). You think that just because you've handed me the opinion of someone labeled a left-winger, I feel more like changing my mind, or be embarrassed somehow, or something. I even have friends who agree with the ruling in this case (to my consternation). There are probabilities in regards to clusters of political beliefs, but it's totally discrete. It surprises me not at all that there are left-wingers who thing Zimmerman is not guilty. I suspect they are considerably rarer than right-wingers who do, however. It doesn't matter to me either way, especially since the piece you linked contains no new detail or insightful argument.

    I don't think you're racist based on this. Nor would I generally say you're crazy for this. I do find your reasoning here ridiculous, and I also have some doubts that you would actually apply it universally, but instead think that you somehow got caught up on one side of this debate and adjusted your reasoning at its convenience.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #337
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    For the salient facts in this case were not in dispute. On 26 February 2012 Martin was on his way home, minding his own business armed only with a can of iced tea and a bag of Skittles. Zimmerman pursued him, armed with a 9mm handgun, believing him to be a criminal. Martin resisted. They fought. Zimmerman shot him dead.
    Some of these "salient facts" are in dispute, though. This narrative paints the picture that Zimmerman chased down Martin, initiated physical contact (see - "Martin resisted"), and shot him. The other narrative, purported by Zimmerman and loosely corroborated by neighborhood witnesses, is that Zimmerman stopped pursuit, and was accosted by Martin. All these articles are spreading supposition and/or falsehood as truth, and painting a picture that serves to enrage the public and circuitously condemn a man to a life of suffering; a man, I might add, who was acquitted by a jury of his peers.
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  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Some of these "salient facts" are in dispute, though. This narrative paints the picture that Zimmerman chased down Martin, initiated physical contact (see - "Martin resisted"), and shot him. The other narrative, purported by Zimmerman and loosely corroborated by neighborhood witnesses, is that Zimmerman stopped pursuit, and was accosted by Martin. All these articles are spreading supposition and/or falsehood as truth, and painting a picture that serves to enrage the public and circuitously condemn a man to a life of suffering; a man, I might add, who was acquitted by a jury of his peers.
    Thank you.

  9. #339
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I can count on a foreign publication to go balls out on its opinion.

    Open season on black boys after a verdict like this




    I find the headline overly sensational, but I pretty much agree with the piece.



    Ugh. This is just the kind of thing I expect from you (and DiscoBiscuit as well). You think that just because you've handed me the opinion of someone labeled a left-winger, I feel more like changing my mind, or be embarrassed somehow, or something. I even have friends who agree with the ruling in this case (to my consternation). There are probabilities in regards to clusters of political beliefs, but it's totally discrete. It surprises me not at all that there are left-wingers who thing Zimmerman is not guilty. I suspect they are considerably rarer than right-wingers who do, however. It doesn't matter to me either way, especially since the piece you linked contains no new detail or insightful argument.

    I don't think you're racist based on this. Nor would I generally say you're crazy for this. I do find your reasoning here ridiculous, and I also have some doubts that you would actually apply it universally, but instead think that you somehow got caught up on one side of this debate and adjusted your reasoning at its convenience.
    A. We do it because you're such a reliable partisan hack.

    B. Did you even look at the site? That's not just any left wing blogger she's one of the premier criminal defense attorneys in the country and was on the McVeigh defense team.

    C. The site has some of the most indepth coverage of the actual case that I've seen. I even realized after reading a couple of articles that I've been conceding way to much (as johnnyboy seems to be aware) there's not even evidence that Zimmerman (or anyone) did chase Martin. No testimony. No witnesses. Nothing.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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  10. #340

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I can see where Jumaane Williams is coming from. "Proactive" policing means: "There's a black guy, let's go check him out." As a result, NYC has seen a growing policy over the last few years of individuals being targeted for on-the-spot searches simply for walking down the street. They force people - certain people - to prove they are not guilty of being involved in some nefarious deeds.

    In some areas, not just NYC, you will see this "proactive" behavior with neighborhood watch people who are playing cops. How would you like it if you were walking home from the convenience store with a bag, and some big tough dude claiming to be neighborhood watch starts bullying you around asking to see what's in your bag? Yes, it happens.
    I'd just kick the fuck out of him

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