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  1. #311
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    I would hate to know there is nothing to be done in such circumstance, given the law will not protect my right to defend myself, should I be able to do so.
    Damn straight.

  2. #312
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Just a reminder of why people really shouldn't want a weakening of self-defense claims and the beyond reasonable doubt burden of proof.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...Bob_Evans_Cory
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  3. #313
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    Did anyone watch this video when I posted it (maybe now that there aren't so many people posting it won't be missed)?

    Quote Originally Posted by FireShield98 View Post
    Anyway, here's my perspective on the case.

    Initially, when it was first covered, I was on the side of Trayvon Martin. I mean, the only thing we knew was that this teenager was shot and killed by this grown man while going to his father's house, and all he had on him was Skittles and Iced Tea. Naturally, I'd be on the side of the victim.

    Some people were accusing Zimmerman of being a racist simply because he was "white" and Martin was black. It didn't occur to me to see it this way, since I'm "colorblind" in that sense, and besides, I doubt anyone would be calling Zimmerman a racist if he was black and Martin was white. However, when the 911 recording was released, I then did think he was a racist, because of the things he said.

    However, as more and more evidence was released, I became impartial to the case and decided I would wait until the end, when all the evidence was released, to make my judgment. As time went on, I kind of wanted Zimmerman to be found innocent, simply out of spite for the people who, despite all evidence, so desperately wanted (and still want) Zimmerman to be guilty.

    When I saw that video I posted, I became convinced that Zimmerman was innocent, since it seemed like such a logical explanation. Not to mention this: if there was no evidence or possible explanation either way, and all that was known was that two strangers got into a fight, one was injured and the other was killed, and the person who lived claimed he acted in self defense, he should be found innocent because in order to be found guilty it needs to be beyond a reasonable doubt, and if no evidence is known, there most certainly is a reasonable doubt of his guilt (and even more so with the evidence that was released and the possible explanation in the video above).

    Edit: Sorry for using the wrong words. Obviously when I say "innocent" I mean acquitted and "guilty" I mean punished. The point is the same either way.

  4. #314
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Ehh, the character of Trayvon is irrelevant to the circumstances... It became self defense, but Zimmerman incited the whole thing to begin with... So it was/wasn't self defense.
    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    Ok for both of you that think that Zimmerman was guilty, and that Treyvon was this innocent little child that just got murdered in cold blood, let us examine the facts...

    1. The majority of the witnesses said that they saw Treyvon attack Zimmerman first. I also clearly remember at least one of the witnesses that said that they saw Zimmerman attack first, admit to the court that they didn't actually see the attack, and that they were just influenced by the media.

    2.Treyvon Martin wasn't this innocent little child that the media portrayed him as. The man was in Sanford, Florida going to school only because he was relocated by his parents from his original Miami school because the kid kept getting suspended for fist fighting. This shows that Treyvon had a history of violence. In addition, there was a facebook conversation on his facebook wall that had another man saying something to the effect of, "Hey man, let me get some plant." Treyvon then responded, "I ain't got no phone". This conversation indicates that the kid was clearly a drug dealer.

    Let's also not forget about the pictures on his phone that were shown to the courts: the pictures had him posing with illegally obtained guns, holding up fat stacks of cash that he probably obtained from drug dealing, and sipping on purple drink (which is a drink that is composed of illegally obtained Promethazine cough syrup with codine in it (painkillers) mixed with sprite and a jolly rancher). They also asked several of his teachers was Trayvon was like, and the majority of his teachers pretty much validated that the kid was a thug. Let's also not forget about the fact that Treyvon was found with marijuana in his pocket when police discovered his body.

    3. If Zimmerman shot the kid in cold blood, then why would he not have just hid the body? Why on earth would he have called the police if he knew that he was guilty? Also, people say that Zimmerman killed Treyvon because he was black, but if this is true, then when the dispatcher on the phone asked him what race Treyvon was, why did he respond, "I don't know". The man didn't kill Treyvon because he was black, that's for sure.

    4. Zimmerman claimed that he shot Treyvon because Treyvon was bashing his head into the concrete. Then he claimed that Treyvon went for his gun, and he had no choice but to kill Treyvon because otherwise, Treyvon would have killed him. The medical examiner in the case confirmed this, and said that all of Zimmerman's wounds were congruent with his testimony.

    On a side note, what was the man supposed to do? Just let Treyvon grab his gun and kill him? Of course not, it was self defense. Also, given Treyvon's history of violence, I see no reason to really doubt Zimmerman's testimony either.

    5. Trayvon wasn't even supposed to be in that gated community that Zimmerman was patrolling. It was originally claimed that Treyvon's dad lived in that community, but that turned out to be false. In all actuality, Treyvon's dad lived somewhere else, and Treyvon just hopped the fence and was illegally trespassing in that community.

  5. #315
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    You should visit.
    Floridian weather does not suit me.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #316
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Are the police asking for trouble?
    It is quite necessary that we have some kind of law enforcement official who is granted the right to do things the other people are not. It doesn't mean those people are always competent or fair, unfortunately, but your civilization depends on the existence of such a class. So in many similar cases, a cop's behavior would not be as questionable (though we should still have some rules for police crossing the line).

    If you have any further question about this, spend some time reading about precisely what a vigilante is.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #317
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It is quite necessary that we have some kind of law enforcement official who is granted the right to do things the other people are not. It doesn't mean those people are always competent or fair, unfortunately, but your civilization depends on the existence of such a class. So in many similar cases, a cop's behavior would not be as questionable (though we should still have some rules for police crossing the line).
    Actually I very much prefer a substantial weakening of the police force and decriminalization of many of the non-violent offenses that fill our prisons with young black men.



    If you have any further question about this, spend some time reading about precisely what a vigilante is.
    You don't have to be a vigilante to chase someone while armed.

    What if you're just a Good Samaritan trying to catch up with someone who dropped their wallet?
    Take the weakest thing in you
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  8. #318
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    Well now that they've lost the case, the national media is indicting Florida and her laws.

    I think if you scrutinized the self defense laws of most other state's and apply the facts from this case, that Zimmerman walks 99 times out of 100.

  9. #319
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @Beorn

    Yes, that was an interesting case to remember. Let's also not forget about this case that happened in my own town of Jacksonville, Florida. This woman had an abusive husband that was outside trying his damndest to get in her house and try to kill her, and she fired warning shots and got thrown in jail for 20 years. This case was bullshit....

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justic...und-sentencing

  10. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Well now that they've lost the case, the national media is indicting Florida and her laws.

    I think if you scrutinized the self defense laws of most other state's and apply the facts from this case, that Zimmerman walks 99 times out of 100.
    Florida's self defensive laws suck. Back in the day before "Stand Your Ground" and "Castle Doctrine" someone could break into my house, and rob me and I couldn't shoot them or it would be murder. Bare in mind, I wouldn't know if they were armed or not, but I couldn't shoot or I would be convicted. Also, if someone was beating the absolute shit out of me and was going to kill me, I couldn't shoot them either before "Stand Your Ground" came along.

    Personally, I'm worried about the next big case that took place in our very town of Jacksonville, Florida with Jordon Davis. That case is gonna basically be Trevyon Martin round 2. I haven't really studied the facts of the case to see if the boy was innocent or not, but this case could easily get "Stand Your Ground" and "Castle Doctrine" overturned. This case scares me.

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