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  1. #211
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I've gotten into fights at school, so I suppose I deserve to get shot by a doughy douchebag also. There's a big difference between fighting someone in school and having such aggression issues that you want to seek out potential criminals and follow them around, ignoring all the warnings of the police on your own free time.

    I would.
    Well, I think that your fights at school make you more likely to engage in fights rather than flee. You might not, but of the population of people who did get into fights, I'm sure a statistically significant percentage of them would fight rather than flee when compared to those young people who didn't get into fights. I didn't get into fights, and I would run away if some guy were following me. I might even scream for help.

    I respect your stance, but I have a hard time condemning anybody to prison without sufficient evidence. I'm saddened by the death of Trayvon Martin, but I don't want to sentence a man to prison who might have been defending himself. All other speculation aside, it is clear that Martin was winning the fight (he had no other major wounds than the gunshot would, and Zimmerman was bloodied), and as I said before, if some guy were beating me up in that way I would have shot him as well. /shrug
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #212
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    To me, the only things that stretch beyond a reasonable doubt are Zimmerman being told not to follow Martin, Zimmerman following Martin, Martin being unarmed, some kind of fight starting, and Zimmerman somehow winding up shooting Martin. Like I've said repeatedly in this thread, if we go with what's beyond the shadow of a doubt and nothing else, Zimmerman is guilty of something. His innocence is based entirely on the added, uncertain details.
    Much as I recognize Zimmerman's an overzealous wannabe cop, who shouldn't have pursued Martin after making that call, following him wasn't against the law. Stupid & absolutely an escalating factor in the situation, but not illegal.

    The rest is all vague he said/she said.
    Though anyone with common sense can see easily how this could have been prevented had Z not been such a douche, no one can conclude "beyond reasonable doubt" what transpired in those crucial moments of Martin's death. Ultimately, that's how the system works, and that's all there is to it. Beyond reasonable doubt- or you walk.
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  3. #213
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    My kid got suspended. Here's a picture of her. She's often armed with Skittles and wears hoodies a lot, so be careful if you decide to pursue her against the advice of authorities.

    Attachment 9771
    Indeed. After all, you wouldn't want to wind up in an embarrassing trial after you kill her.
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  4. #214
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    To me, the only things that stretch beyond a reasonable doubt are Zimmerman being told not to follow Martin,
    Police dispatchers do not have the right to order anybody around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Zimmerman following Martin, Martin being unarmed, some kind of fight starting, and Zimmerman somehow winding up shooting Martin. Like I've said repeatedly in this thread, if we go with what's beyond the shadow of a doubt and nothing else, Zimmerman is guilty of something. His innocence is based entirely on the added, uncertain details.
    It's not a "shadow of a doubt," it's "reasonable doubt." And it applies in the Z case because the jury found "reasonable doubt" to declare him not guilty.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #215
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    Much as I recognize Zimmerman's an overzealous wannabe cop, who shouldn't have pursued Martin after making that call, following him wasn't against the law.
    The rest is all vague he said/she said.
    Though anyone with common sense can see easily how this could have been prevented had Z not been such a douche, no one can conclude "beyond reasonable doubt" what transpired in those crucial moments of Martin's death. Ultimately, that's how the system works, and that's all there is to it. Beyond reasonable doubt- or you walk.
    It is beyond reasonable doubt that Martin was shot dead by Zimmerman. This is fact #1 in this case. How does this keep getting on the back burner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    It's not a "shadow of a doubt," it's "reasonable doubt." And it applies in the Z case because the jury found "reasonable doubt" to declare him not guilty.
    There is no doubt about what Zimmerman did. There's only suspicion about what Martin did.
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  6. #216
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    I don't believe the fights were in school, or at least not all of them. I would like to point out, however, that fights at school shouldn't be any different than fights outside of school. Wouldn't you agree? Do you think that the Columbine murderers are less violent because they killed people while at school?

    So, you kind of believe that Zimmerman was the aggressor. I don't see anything wrong with that, but does such a belief stretch beyond a reasonable doubt? Would you be comfortable with sending Zimmerman to prison?
    The dude is also a pedophile. He's not "innocent". He's a sick fuck who belongs in a cell for the rest of his life.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #217
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It is beyond reasonable doubt that Martin was shot dead by Zimmerman. This is fact #1 in this case. How does this keep getting on the back burner?
    That isn't the issue. The issue is whether a reasonable person would have done the same in the situation, and if Zimmerman initiated the violence. Since I consider myself a reasonable person, and since I would shoot someone if he were beating me up and I had a gun, I conclude that the first condition is met. As to the second, it's up to a jury to decide whether the state provided sufficient evidence to conclude, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman initiated the fight.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #218
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I'm imagining this thread's local George Zimmerman defense team at the Nuremberg trials. It would be something to see.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #219
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It is beyond reasonable doubt that Martin was shot dead by Zimmerman. This is fact #1 in this case. How does this keep getting on the back burner?



    There is no doubt about what Zimmerman did. There's only suspicion about what Martin did.
    Like I wrote above, there is no doubt about what Z did. The reasonable doubt involves the degree of legal liability Z should be penalized with.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #220
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    That isn't the issue. The issue is whether a reasonable person would have done the same in the situation, and if Zimmerman initiated the violence. Since I consider myself a reasonable person, and since I would shoot someone if he were beating me up and I had a gun, I conclude that the first condition is met. As to the second, it's up to a jury to decide whether the state provided sufficient evidence to conclude, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman initiated the fight.
    You should possibly reconsider the whole "reasonable person" thing.

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