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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    This point has already been dealt with in court.

    http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06...immerman-trial

    And forensics indicate that Z's head wound was consistent with the angle of attack.
    http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...,6005164.story

    And just for fun, here is that Jeantel chick, who believes white people are "crackers" (although this is not a racist statement, of course!), being demolished on the stand:
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...6#.UeAv6Kwpi_I
    In that testimony they never really clear up whether Martin grabbed his head and slammed it into the pavement or whether that was just to follow through from the punches. At this point its rather trivial, changing nothing one way or the other.

  2. #112
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    In that testimony they never really clear up whether Martin grabbed his head and slammed it into the pavement or whether that was just to follow through from the punches. At this point its rather trivial, changing nothing one way or the other.
    Where are you getting your information? I have provided links. Where are your links? Are they foxnews links?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #113
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    If it's possible, let's separate this concept from Zimmerman and Martin.

    We can imagine a scenario, and I'm sure many real scenarios like this one happen around the country.

    We have a case where the only absolutely certain facts are these:
    An individual pursued another individual for some unclear reason, while carrying a gun.
    The individual being followed did not have a weapon.
    The individual being followed eventually confronted the follower.
    Some manner of physical altercation followed from this at some point.
    The altercation ultimately resulted in the follower fatally shooting the individual they followed.


    Suppose all other information added to this case is muddy. Why the one individual chose to follow the other. When and why the followed confronted the follower. Who started the physical altercation, Etc...
    Suppose all of that has swung this way and the other, and left us with no satisfyingly confident conclusions, thus leaving us again with only the certanties colored in green. If you were presented with that scenario, what charge would you seek for the surviving man who followed and ultimately shot the deceased?
    Let's see the prosecution use THAT as its final word to the jury.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Where are you getting your information? I have provided links. Where are your links? Are they foxnews links?
    I'm getting that from your link. I had concluded as much earlier from other sites I've seen, but wanted to look at your link before I responded.

    Here are the relevant excerpts:

    The physician assistant who treated Zimmerman the day after the shooting, Lindzee Folgate, said he came in wanting a note to go back to work. He was also complaining of nose pain and told her he was involved in an altercation and was pushed to the ground.

    “His head was hit into the pavement multiple times," Folgate said.

    She measured two lacerations that she observed on the back of Zimmerman’s head, which were 2 cm and 0.5 cm in length. She said she didn’t feel sutures were necessary.

    She also examined Zimmerman’s nose, finding swelling and bruising. Based on her observations, she believed it was broken but couldn’t say for sure without an x-ray. She said she encouraged Zimmerman to see a specialist.
    and...

    5:22 p.m. ET: "If the complaint was that the head was hit on concrete, would you find that consistent with the injuries you see?" asked O'Mara.

    "I would," said Folgate.

    5:19 p.m. ET: O'Mara points out more bumps and abrasions on Zimmerman's head and Folgate says they could be consistent with a head hitting concrete.

    5:15 p.m. ET: Injuries seen on Zimmerman's temple could be consistence with his head being hit against concrete, according to Folgate.

    5:14 p.m. ET: Folgate agrees that a head hitting concrete could cause the swelling.

    5:11 p.m. ET: Folgate looks at another photo of the back of Zimmerman's head taken the night of the incident. She says she sees swelling that could have resolved itself before she examined him. She explains that trauma can cause swelling and blood to pool beneath the skin.
    All they really say is that his head did hit the pavement, not how it did so. Like I said earlier, it's not conclusive how his head impacted the pavement one way or the other, I just happen to find one explanation a little more plausible.

    Cheers.

  5. #115
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I'm getting that from your link. I had concluded as much earlier from other sites I've seen, but wanted to look at your link before I responded.

    Here are the relevant excerpts:



    All they really say is that his head did hit the pavement, not how it did so. Like I said earlier, it's not conclusive how his head impacted the pavement one way or the other, I just happen to find one explanation a little more plausible.

    Cheers.
    Kewl, you actually provided proof this time.

    Have you ever banged your head against a concrete sidewalk?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Kewl, you actually provided proof this time.

    Have you ever banged your head against a concrete sidewalk?
    I fell off the top of an eight foot fence 1 1/2 weeks ago and broke my right arm (radial head fracture). I've got more experience with pavement than that, but thats the most recent.

  7. #117
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I fell off the top of an eight foot fence 1 1/2 weeks ago and broke my right arm (radial head fracture). I've got more experience with pavement than that, but thats the most recent.
    I crashed my bike, and did other shit, numerous times as a child that resulted in my banging the back of my head on pavement. It hurts like hell. That probably explains why I turned out the way I did. However, not one time did it lacerate and bleed, or have a concussion. I do however have a permanent bump back there.

    The wounds that Z received are, "head wounds, a broken nose and black eyes."
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ht-attack.html

    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #118
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    I think Zimmerman's definitely guilty on the lesser count. I was watching CNN earlier today and they mentioned that he didn't have the authority to pursue someone according to the tenets the homeowner's association had laid out for his position. I don't think we want to give random people who may or may not be looking for the opportunity to engage in some power play the right to take justice into their own hands, whatever interpretation of it they have. I don't know about murder, though. Seems like a stretch. As was said before, I don't think Zimmerman intended for the situation to end in Martin's death before the physical altercation started...with a jury of all women, I doubt he'll get acquitted of everything, though.

    Definitely a complicated case. Glad I'm not a lawyer.

  9. #119
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    I think Zimmerman's definitely guilty on the lesser count. I was watching CNN earlier today and they mentioned that he didn't have the authority to pursue someone according to the tenets the homeowner's association had laid out for his position. I don't think we want to give random people who may or may not be looking for the opportunity to engage in some power play the right to take justice into their own hands, whatever interpretation of it they have. I don't know about murder, though. Seems like a stretch. As was said before, I don't think Zimmerman intended for the situation to end in Martin's death before the physical altercation started...with a jury of all women, I doubt he'll get acquitted of everything, though.

    Definitely a complicated case. Glad I'm not a lawyer.
    A jury of women sympathetic to Z, you mean.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    A jury of women sympathetic to Z, you mean.
    Excuse my ignorance in this matter (I reluctantly admit that I've been busy have not kept up with media coverage of this very much until I watched CNN today) but do people think that the jury of mostly white women are going to be sympathetic to Zimmerman because of race? I think they might be sympathetic to Trayvon because they might be imagining their child in that situation.

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