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  1. #1
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Default Snowden, Part Two - "They're going to say I aided our enemies"

    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  2. #2
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    I would give him shelter from the storm in my cellar.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I reckon the US by spying on everyone, literally everyone, has declared that everyone is their enemy, that being the case its hard to see how anyone could be seen as not aiding America's enemies.

  4. #4
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    "Our enemies", eh? The poor fella still thought he was American.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  5. #5
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    The thing about what we now know is, these revelations will not lead to some correction action. I don't think any government is going to give up these kinds of capabilities, let alone the US government. I think in fact, these kinds of programs will grow. These revelations will cause authority figures some discomfort for a while, but ultimately just about everyone will end up saying they are necessary or needed or they exist so someone should have them. They'll become standard.

    That's the milieu now. The number of people hauled off the street because of these programs is so small, and so little related to the majority of normal people, and "privacy" has so little affect on most people's lives, that everyone thinks they don't care.

    I mean, your government tortures people. It's not like surveillance is that big a no-no anymore.



    This rant brought to you but not really knowing why no one cares anymore, and the number 2.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  6. #6
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    I think the problem is, as always, that the effects of the wrongdoing are not palpable enough. If, by a hitherto unknown mechanism, being watched made people poor, the leak might have resulted in something akin to the Occupy movement. Then again, a lot Americans somehow manage to deny climate change, and there is the Tea Party. Do only fools and losers still demonstrate?
    Last edited by Nicodemus; 07-11-2013 at 05:03 AM.

  7. #7
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    It does kind of put to rest the old "information wants to be free." Information wants to be collected.

    Also, how the internet was going to democratise the world? I was reading an (awful) book by Cory Doctorow which he prefaced with a paean to the internet and how it makes it so much easier for people to organise, haterz as well as nice people, and how this was good for the future of something. And I'm like, please, your Utopian dreams are ashes, buddy. The simple bodily freedom you enjoy in the world is over once you enter the internet. Facebook made the Egyptian revolution possible? Not for much longer, pal. And so on for all the other glorious freedoms, just as soon as governments around the world get the same technology the NSA has. And since the NSA technology is not any miracle science that has to be earned by invention, it's not going to take that long.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  8. #8
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Well, why did he go to evil countries like China and Russia? He should have gone to a friendly country like England so that he could get extradited, which is what someone who values freedom should do.

    Keep in mind that freedom does not mean freedom to walk around in public if people somehow think you're out of the ordinary and suspicious. Freedom means the freedom to emulate Troy Duffy movies, the freedom to drive shiny cars to the mailbox on the corner, and the freedom to sell boner pills on TV (so you can "ask your doctor if Cialis is right for you").

    These freedoms are what we nuked the French for in Dubya Dubya Two. I think this had something to do with that giant lizard that attacked NYC in 2001 and some secret agent who was like Natalie Portman's bodyguard or something.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  9. #9
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Well, why did he go to evil countries like China and Russia?
    Do you mean "evil countries" like downtown Hong Kong and the transit lounge of Sheremetyevo International Airport? Or is there in fact some evidence that the US PR scare campaign is right and poor ole Snowy has been doing espionage alongside the leaking? He did step a little into the national security realm when he started saying, in public, that the NSA hacks China. Beyond that, the only known evidence one way or another that he's given away secrets secretly is his assertion that he hasn't.

    Personally I think he went to Hong Kong (as opposed, say, to Beijing) so that he, one man, could be safer. Instead of being one man vs the US security apparatus, he's one man vs the US security apparatus with its hands tied by politics. Don't know why he got stuck in Russia. Maybe the Wikileaks people aren't that great at exfiltration.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  10. #10
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Do you mean "evil countries" like downtown Hong Kong and the transit lounge of Sheremetyevo International Airport? Or is there in fact some evidence that the US PR scare campaign is right and poor ole Snowy has been doing espionage alongside the leaking?
    No. The U.S. does not engage in propaganda. Propaganda is against freedom and was outlawed by the declaration of independence. Looks like someone slept through junior high history class!

    If Snowden valued freedom, he would have gone somewhere he could get extradited. Since he did not, we can conclude that Snowden did not value freedom and is probably going to use evil nerd magic to hack into the constitution and delete the bill of rights, except for the third amendment. Even traitors don't want redcoats hanging out in their apartments and eating all their ham.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus
    I think the problem is, as always, that the effects of the wrongdoing are not palpable enough.
    Sadly, I also think you are underestimating the power of partisan groupthink, as well.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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