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  1. #71
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    I just wonder if people will react differently if Snowden was a Chinese citizen who had leaked info about the Chinese government's civilian surveillance system and now he's on the run from Chinese authorities? I'm pretty sure in that case a lot of countries will be ready to take him in with open arms and claiming that it's because they support freedom.

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  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    And I think it's ridiculous to condemn him based on where he's seeking refuge. If he sought refuge in Australia and America asked us to turn him over he would certainly be turned over with minimal fuss. Why? Because right and wrong in one tiny case are vastly outweighed by the benefit Australia derives from their close relationship with America. His crime could be giving too much to charity and he'd still be turned over. Russia and China meanwhile enjoy no such benefit and may well enjoy the embarrassment Snowden has caused America. So even though they might be protecting him for the wrong reasons, that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve protection. It also doesn't mean he prefers Russian or Chinese values over American values. It means nothing more than that he's safer there.
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  3. #73
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    Can I just say now how hilarious I find it that mole the muslim hater is being so vocal against a legal surveillance program of foreign terrorism.

    Prism does not sound very frightening to me at all. If anything since the Boston bombing ive actually begun to think of America as too lax on terrorism, not even acknowledging Russias tips.

    They have to issue warrants and subpoenas etc

    It's not like theyre sitting here watching us on the forum.

    Ive actually believed the government had.even more surveillance of the internet actually.

    Im pleasantly surprised prism is actually pretty minimal.

    Oh internet.

  4. #74
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    I want to be certain now that you guys even know what prism is.

    Have you read about it?

    I mean really they dont give a flying fuck about your interest in ayn rand or your masturbation habits.

    There's a whole process and companies like Microsoft have to agree to hand over information about a relatively small number of individuals.

    Its like you guys think they can see you in your underwear or will arrest you for internet trolling.

  5. #75
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    He did not do this for freedom. If he cant seek asylum in Australia or France, he did something very very wrong.
    You realise we have an extradition treaty with the US don't you? You don't even have to do anything wrong, perhaps the US just wants to question you, but if the states wants you back we will send them on, no questions asked. (unless of course we want to actually prosecute the person, even then the US will take people back and we have to ask nicely to have them back to prosecute.)

    Not exactly hideout material.

    If he was from Spain however, he'd be sweet, like the guy who ripped off half the country and skipped off with tens of millions of dollars and we couldn't get him back. That's why you go to countries that don't have agreements.

    Australia has been in bed with the US for a while now.

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  6. #76
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    You guys make it sound so dramatic, but you'd have to be an extremely suspicious character to warrant any kind of attention,
    George Zimmerman thought Trayvon Martin was extremely suspicious. I don't think most people are very good judges of what is suspicious, and often suspicious just means anything out of the ordinary. I think insisting on secrecy is often just so people's poor judgements and mistakes can't be revealed. I suppose it's necessary if we have agents in somewhere like Iran, but I can't see any good reason why the very existence of domestic surveillance like that needs to be kept secret.

    Looks like Amnesty International is now into treason, too. Why are they meeting with a traitor unless they are secret traitors themselves?

    Also, I found an interview with the Guardian where he says the following:

    A lot of people in 2008 voted for Obama. I did not vote for him. I voted for a third party. But I believed in Obama's promises. I was going to disclose it [but waited because of his election]. He continued with the policies of his predecessor."
    Obviously, he's drunk the typical rethuglican Kool-aid. Rethuglicans are such sheeple.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    The irony I see here is that China is known for their invasions of privacy and domineering laws, and Russia takes a very hard stance against terrorists...including recently warning American about the Boston bombers, and they did not heed Russia's warning to our peril.
    So I posit that you think we should be more like Russia and China? Got it.

    It is not what is stated that you should be worried about, it is what is NOT being stated that you should be worried about.

    I should really start a business.....

  8. #78
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Are you also sick of Google, Facebook and Amazon.com?
    Yes, actually I am. But they only know what I give them. They don't have access to all my phone records, all my personal information, etc. If they aren't given a piece of information about me, they have no way of knowing. No doubt they'd take advantage if they could, but unlike the US government when it refuses to follow its own core documents, they can't take without my approval.
    You lose.

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  9. #79
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Ho hum. Your argument is so weak and infantile that I can barely even muster the proper level of annoyance to even bother to respond.

    I'm actually fairly liberal (some people consider me radically liberal) and a citizen of the world. I just have more practical concerns than yourself apparently.

    This has nothing to do with the 50s, and it's not like all non-Americans (like you and the other Europeans - or Asians - whining in the thread) are automatically suspects.

    You guys make it sound so dramatic, but you'd have to be an extremely suspicious character to warrant any kind of attention, primarily terrorism or activity linked to potentially hostile countries, especially the government of those countries, not necessarily private citizens unless they are interested in international terrorism.
    Hi Marm. Guess who's not the judge. That would be you. You're not the judge. The NSA is, your unelected representatives. And this claim about "you'd have to be an extremely suspicious character"? Where did you get that? Are you relying on your trust that an American government institution would not abuse its secretly obtained rights to surveil basically anyone? A dude who worked for them--Edward Snowden--said they do, and he said the abuse is systematic. He told everyone about some of the secret powers this unelected organisation with substantial resources has obtained and then asked you to decide. The stupid fuck attempted to have you perform a democratic duty.

    Also, any citizen tracked by this system, well it would have to go through an entire legal court procedure. They can't just come and capture you like the KGB.
    I quoted this for the sheer loving trust you display in your government.
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  10. #80
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    The irony I see here is that China is known for their invasions of privacy and domineering laws, and Russia takes a very hard stance against terrorists...including recently warning American about the Boston bombers, and they did not heed Russia's warning to our peril.
    This, by the way, is not irony. This is the claim that America is not bad like the bad guys. You're setting your standard for trust kind of low.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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