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  1. #11
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    The mighty Meh monster is upon us. Type: IMehnTP. Representing the great republic, iMehrica.

    But if the issue were as meh as everyone agrees it is, Snowden could reasonably be allowed to go free.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  2. #12
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I think there are always consequences for doing what you think is the right thing.

    He went to Russia because Russia said they'd take him in. I'm not one for more delicate politics like this.. but I know that the UK is closer friends to the US than Russia is. The chances that he'd be safe in Russia are higher historically speaking.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  3. #13
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    He went to Russia because Russia said they'd take him in.
    They did? For free? While he was sitting in Hong Kong getting interviewed, Snowden noted that Russia always had an open door for people with secrets to spill. He mentioned that while explaining why he was in Hong Kong. That is, he was claiming he wasn't selling secrets. But now he is?

    As I understand it, the various official (and various unofficial) commentators who mention the China and Russia threats, say it is probable that Russia and China now have everything Snowden had. That is, "they're going to say I aided our enemies". But where are they getting this probability from?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  4. #14
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    They did? For free? While he was sitting in Hong Kong getting interviewed, Snowden noted that Russia always had an open door for people with secrets to spill. He mentioned that while explaining why he was in Hong Kong. That is, he was claiming he wasn't selling secrets. But now he is?

    As I understand it, the various official (and various unofficial) commentators who mention the China and Russia threats, say it is probable that Russia and China now have everything Snowden had. That is, "they're going to say I aided our enemies". But where are they getting this probability from?
    I don't know, I'm looking at things from a very narrow perspective. I know very little of this situation.. I know Russia can be a very scary place. And I know that nothing is free.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
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  5. #15
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I guess no one questions the US war footing and what it is determining.

    Someone should Facebook a chain letter describing "our" plans to detonate a nuclear device somewhere in the US eastern seaboard. Post this to six friends or your puppies will die. The degree to which it goes viral is the degree to which the NSA gets pranked. Your inbox and that of all your friends will end up on NSA harddrives but hey, they're there already, right?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  6. #16
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    I don't know much about the issue, and I'm not a US citizen, so I'm not directly affected. I'd say he should turn himself in, go to a low-security 'white collar' prison for a few years, preferably with a reduced sentence from millions of petition signatures, then be set free. Then he should set up his own company selling civilian anti-surveillance technology.

    I think he believed what he did was a right thing. Might not be the smartest thing, but if his intention was pure, then I don't think he did anything wrong.
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  7. #17
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    I don't know much about the issue, and I'm not a US citizen, so I'm not directly affected.
    As I understand it, PRISM is a tool used after an NSA analyst finds reason to look more closely at you and your internet presence. How that NSA analyst can come up with reason to be interested in you is unclear, but it appears to have something to do with flagged terms or some other clue appearing in the raw data that pours through the main internet backbones, the optical cables of the Tier 1 networks, many of which are located in or pass through the US, and apparently some of which the NSA taps. Once the analyst is interested in you, he or she will wish to scoop up your correspondences--emails, VoIPs, cloud data, etc--but can't name you directly to the big media companies--Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Yahoo!, et al--because that would amount to broadcasting their interest in you. So the analyst produces "selectors"--search terms they will supply to the media companies which the media companies will use to choose data to send back to the analyst. The selectors will be vague enough that you are not personally identified, but accurate enough that you will be included in whichever group of people they do identify, and your data, along with that of all the other people who fall under the selectors, will be sent to the NSA for further analysis and storage.

    For this to happen to you, and everyone who falls under the selectors, some magical terrorist switch on the internet needs to be tripped, and there needs also to be a better than 51% probability that you are not a US citizen. It's actually kind of hard to work out just who can't be directly affected.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  8. #18
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    As I understand it, PRISM is a tool used after an NSA analyst finds reason to look more closely at you and your internet presence. How that NSA analyst can come up with reason to be interested in you is unclear, but it appears to have something to do with flagged terms or some other clue appearing in the raw data that pours through the main internet backbones, the optical cables of the Tier 1 networks, many of which are located in or pass through the US, and apparently some of which the NSA taps. Once the analyst is interested in you, he or she will wish to scoop up your correspondences--emails, VoIPs, cloud data, etc--but can't name you directly to the big media companies--Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Yahoo!, et al--because that would amount to broadcasting their interest in you. So the analyst produces "selectors"--search terms they will supply to the media companies which the media companies will use to choose data to send back to the analyst. The selectors will be vague enough that you are not personally identified, but accurate enough that you will be included in whichever group of people they do identify, and your data, along with that of all the other people who fall under the selectors, will be sent to the NSA for further analysis and storage.

    For this to happen to you, and everyone who falls under the selectors, some magical terrorist switch on the internet needs to be tripped, and there needs also to be a better than 51% probability that you are not a US citizen. It's actually kind of hard to work out just who can't be directly affected.
    Thanks for clarifying that! So I guess I am directly affected. I guess I'll be signing the petition as well

    The weird thing is I'm a bit on the fence whether to be upset or not by what the US government is trying to do. Yeah, no one wants a terrorist blowing up their country. That I totally understand. I believe the US government is really trying to prevent future attacks. Does the end justify the means? Would you rather live under constant scrutiny or be allowed to die in privacy? What's the price of safety or privacy anyways?
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  9. #19
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Sadly, I also think you are underestimating the power of partisan groupthink, as well.
    It is indeed sad that you think so. We can still be friends, though.

  10. #20
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    It's fascinating for me that just down the road from Canberra is a high tech spy station taking data from all over the world and partly processing it.

    And Ed Snowden has revealed there three other high tech spy stations in Oz on the three corners of the continent and one in the middle.

    And the algorithms can link anyone with anyone, producing social maps of who is communicating with who.

    This is disturbing for the literate who still believe in privacy and the individual, but privacy is over and the literate individual is fading into history.

    So Ed Snowden is aiding the literate while the electronic tribe is in the city.

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