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View Poll Results: Should Snowden be freed?

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  • Yes

    34 80.95%
  • No

    8 19.05%
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  1. #31
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LevelZeroHero View Post
    I hardly think other countries are terrified. However, a good relationship with the US for economic reasons is very important in the global market. It's strictly political... take Russian for example. If they harbor Snowden, they gain nothing and in exchange put stress on their relationship with the US. If they take a strong stance against harboring him, they gain a little with their US partner and lose nothing.

    Countries like Ecuador are not doing anything heroic or standing up to the "bully" US (and does it make any sense to consider a country a 'bully' when they contribute the lion's share of foreign aid?) they simply do not operate much in the same market stream as the US and thus have nothing to lose, so they are hoping to gain recognition against the evil NSA in the eyes of the world.
    I bet you wish you'd not been so hasty with this post given that France and Portugal were diverting the flight of not just foreign dignitaries but a foreign president simply because they suspected that this guy Snowden was on the plane.

  2. #32
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    This episode has made me think about how US republicans or conservatives have an interest in there being liberals in office, the objectivity about state power seems to slide when there's conservatives in office, patriot act etc. gets passed and opponents are traitors, Obama and liberals are in office and all of a sudden there's the panic and awareness about state power which was lacking previously.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    Ideally, yes, but this isn't always the case. Oftentimes, violations of the constitution are simply dismissed "for our own good," as if the governing body is the moral authority and not the people at large. The idea of a moral authority is false anyway. If Snowden makes his decisions based on his own conscience, he's not morally obligated to submit to a particular institution's code, especially when that institution violates its own code.
    Frankly, we must make up our own minds whether we accept the moral contract of liberal democracy.

    We know that power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely, and liberal democracy deals with this by limiting power.

    If we don't choose liberal democracy we may choose from the many other forms of government that have been tried. But so far liberal democracy is the least worse.

    But the problem here is not liberal democracy but in the narsissism we take for granted that makes is ever more difficult for liberal democracy to function.

  4. #34
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Also, this is pretty scandalous:

    http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/j...a-plane-vienna

    In summary: America spits Europe in the face, Snowden makes it public, Europe tries to help America to catch and punish him for stating the obvious (namely that we are fucking vassals of the USA) by temporarily kidnapping the head of state of a sovereign nation on pure suspicion.

    This is embarassing.
    It is scandalous indeed.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #35
    morose bourgeoisie
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    He should not turn himself in. Why would he? So he can spend the rest of his life in a US gulag? the gov't acts as if this person is enemy number one and maligns him endlessly, but just like Assange, no one has been killed except the gov't desire for total impunity.
    He should run as long as he can.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I bet you wish you'd not been so hasty with this post given that France and Portugal were diverting the flight of not just foreign dignitaries but a foreign president simply because they suspected that this guy Snowden was on the plane.
    Common procedure when there is an international fugitive on board.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LevelZeroHero View Post
    Common procedure when there is an international fugitive on board.
    Which there wasn't. It's also no way to treat a head of state.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  8. #38
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LevelZeroHero View Post
    Common procedure when there is an international fugitive on board.
    Doesnt make it right, which should be the first response or question in everyones mind. The question shouldnt and can not ever be is it routine, it should be is it wrong. Snowden had the moral courage to ask that question and act accordingly but it seems like its rarer and rarer for people within the system or others to do so.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    @LevelZeroHero There is a difference between being spied on by your own government and being spied on by a foreign government. I am massively being spied on by a foreign government and I am pissed.
    No you aren't. Unless you have ties to jihad or nuclear activities, I doubt quite seriously that the us government will take the time to order a subpoena to Microsoft or apple to read your pm back log in your email from typology central.

    Sorry to disappoint.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    Why is it his moral duty to turn himself in to a government who he believes transgressed against its own citizens and violated their constitution? He knows he will be tried as a criminal according to the authorities' own interests, which are primarily self-serving. What terrorist attacks has PRISM prevented? It didn't stop the Boston Marathon bombing. I think it's just another example of the US government using the threat of "terror" to increase its own power.
    Ironically you just proved how paranoid snowdens supporters are. If the United states remotely resembled big brother, they would have kept closer tabs on the tsarnaev brothers after being warned about them.

    Just think of all of the attacks that do not go through. The fifty that didnt happen that you don't know about.

    I swear people think the US government cares about their personal life or some shit.

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