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View Poll Results: Should Snowden be freed?

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  • Yes

    34 80.95%
  • No

    8 19.05%
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  1. #11
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I've called the german foreign minister today and told him that under no circumstances Asylum should be granted to Snowman. I told him that I am hanging around on that american forum for some while and that those people are the most tolerant I've ever met in my life. That they accept me disregardless of all the shit I do and just because Germany has a chance now again since a long time to make a fart in history, they shouldnt piss on the wrong tree.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #12
    redundant descriptor netzealot's Avatar
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    Snowden is not a hero or 'friend to the people', he is not working in the best interests of the American public. Because of his actions, countless security programs have suffered exposure and true public enemies have more intel available to them about how to beat the system and harm people.

    Let's face it... people are bad at keeping it all in perspective. Are we really comparing government surveillance, painted with a very broad brush, against preventing occurrences like the Boston bombings and 9/11?

    Frankly, I am not convinced that programs like PRISM or drones strikes will eventually lead to a police state. People will point to the warnings given by founding fathers, but you have to remember they were coming out from under the influence of post-monarchism where government oppression was a real thing (it only exists today in 3rd world nations), long before modern diplomacy . The right to bear arms, too, was conceived at a time before 9-1-1 and a police response time measure in minutes.

    We live in the Big Gulp era, a time when we hold these truths to be self evident, that we can have as many ounces in our supersized drinks as we want. That is to say what a modern day threat to our "liberty" looks like compared to when the nation was conceived.

  3. #13
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I'ld be worried already if I my country was to abbreviate a normally rather uncommon and seldom spoken word like intelligence, with intel
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #14
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    @LevelZeroHero There is a difference between being spied on by your own government and being spied on by a foreign government. I am massively being spied on by a foreign government and I am pissed.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  5. #15
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    I'm trying to stay away, but I can't believe that there are people who actually believe what Snowden did was a bad thing.

    Clapper lied to America under oath and he's not even lightly chastised by the establishment let alone thrown in jail. Yet, we need to lockup the guy who unveiled the largest suspicionless American surveillance program in history?

    Obama lied to us even after the leak and even this morning I still heard the so-called journalists echoing his ABSOLUTE LIE that Americans are not having their phones calls listened to without a warrant. Did you realise they can even listen to an attorney client conversation without a warrant and without direct judicial approval?

    There's this thing called the 4th ammendment and the NSA has been crapping all over it for a decade.

    Between what the NSA has been doing "legally" and indefinate detention under the NDAA Snowden is absolutely right that what we have is turnkey tyranny.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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  6. #16
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    A little light reading for anyone who thinks Snowden should have gone through the main channels or stayed in the US:

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/06/2...l#.UdM7IvG9KSP

    President Barack Obama’s unprecedented initiative, known as the Insider Threat Program, is sweeping in its reach. It has received scant public attention even though it extends beyond the U.S. national security bureaucracies to most federal departments and agencies nationwide, including the Peace Corps, the Social Security Administration and the Education and Agriculture departments. It emphasizes leaks of classified material, but catchall definitions of “insider threat” give agencies latitude to pursue and penalize a range of other conduct.

    Government documents reviewed by McClatchy illustrate how some agencies are using that latitude to pursue unauthorized disclosures of any information, not just classified material. They also show how millions of federal employees and contractors must watch for “high-risk persons or behaviors” among co-workers and could face penalties, including criminal charges, for failing to report them. Leaks to the media are equated with espionage.

    “Hammer this fact home . . . leaking is tantamount to aiding the enemies of the United States,” says a June 1, 2012, Defense Department strategy for the program that was obtained by McClatchy.
    Unless of course the leak is politically beneficial to the president.

    Obama's administration has prosecuted more leakers under the espionage act than all other presidents combined.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I'm trying to stay away, but I can't believe that there are people who actually believe what Snowden did was a bad thing.

    Clapper lied to America under oath and he's not even lightly chastised by the establishment let alone thrown in jail. Yet, we need to lockup the guy who unveiled the largest suspicionless American surveillance program in history?

    Obama lied to us even after the leak and even this morning I still heard the so-called journalists echoing his ABSOLUTE LIE that Americans are not having their phones calls listened to without a warrant. Did you realise they can even listen to an attorney client conversation without a warrant and without direct judicial approval?

    There's this thing called the 4th ammendment and the NSA has been crapping all over it for a decade.

    Between what the NSA has been doing "legally" and indefinate detention under the NDAA Snowden is absolutely right that what we have is turnkey tyranny.
    I agree with this, I dont think this guy is anything like the other wiki leaks guy who I actually think is a scumbag.

    Not only do I think this guy has blown the whistle on some serious big brother activity he has also demonstrated through is attempt to find refuge internationally that the US has global reach enough to terrify just about any and all international governments there are. I was really surprised by how the Russians have reacted in desperately trying to distance themselves from any prospect of him claiming asylum within their borders.

  8. #18
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    That, I think, is "economic partnership".

    I remember watching CNN just on and after 9/11 and thinking, oh wow, this is bad, the Americans will come out into the world now. I thought you guys would bring guns and whatnot. I thought there'd be war of some kind. Well, that was a while ago now, and look what has happened to your moral authority. What PRISM and the programs that back it up look like is an abdication of global leadership. For all the economic partners you have now, you don't have allies any more. You have American interests that aren't global.

    And this is really good news for other countries that have neither the global reach nor the national interest to lead the world but who still want to be in charge. Russia and China, for instance. Or India. Pakistan maybe. They're not capable of making a better world. And now they don't have to either.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  9. #19
    redundant descriptor netzealot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I agree with this, I dont think this guy is anything like the other wiki leaks guy who I actually think is a scumbag.

    Not only do I think this guy has blown the whistle on some serious big brother activity he has also demonstrated through is attempt to find refuge internationally that the US has global reach enough to terrify just about any and all international governments there are. I was really surprised by how the Russians have reacted in desperately trying to distance themselves from any prospect of him claiming asylum within their borders.
    I hardly think other countries are terrified. However, a good relationship with the US for economic reasons is very important in the global market. It's strictly political... take Russian for example. If they harbor Snowden, they gain nothing and in exchange put stress on their relationship with the US. If they take a strong stance against harboring him, they gain a little with their US partner and lose nothing.

    Countries like Ecuador are not doing anything heroic or standing up to the "bully" US (and does it make any sense to consider a country a 'bully' when they contribute the lion's share of foreign aid?) they simply do not operate much in the same market stream as the US and thus have nothing to lose, so they are hoping to gain recognition against the evil NSA in the eyes of the world.

  10. #20
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Depends on the perspective. It is in the interest of the US to uphold the law and punish those who break it. Personally, though, I am sympathetic to him because I see what he did as a good thing.
    Agreed. What he did was against the law, so he can expect to be sanctioned in whatever way the U.S. authorities can manage. The fact that he did what he did knowing this suggests it was very important to him. Many throughout history have broken laws and risked criminal prosecution and worse in order to do what they believed was right, even in the U.S. Our revolution itself was such an act, and the likes of John Adams and Thomas Jefferson could easily have been hanged by King George's troops as traitors. Whether Adams, or Snowden, or others are judged as heroes or villains depends in large part on how successful and productive the outcome of their actions, a judgment often rendered best by history.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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