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View Poll Results: Should Snowden be freed?

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  1. #161
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    But terrorism doesnt need to necessarily be ideological, unless you consider using fear an ideology.

    Capone and co. were using terror as part of their rackets long before politicos adapted or adopted it.
    Sure, but we don't call Capone and Co. terrorists, we call them criminals.

    And we call them criminals because they attacked civilians, not for an ideological purpose, but for a criminal purpose.

  2. #162
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Sure, but we don't call Capone and Co. terrorists, we call them criminals.

    And we call them criminals because they attacked civilians, not for an ideological purpose, but for a criminal purpose.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #163
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Terrorism is not so much an idea, as an attack on civilians, for an ideological purpose.
    That is like 99% of us. In order for your mind to not be committing terrorism on my mind means that my mind needs to remain in stasis. That is near impossible to accomplish.

    As far as I am concerned, anybody that chooses to change my mind is committing terrorism because that person is attacking my mind, which is part of me.

  4. #164
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Except terrorism is an idea, lightning is not.

    Anybody can be labeled a terrorist with the wrong frame of mind. Lightning, however, can be easily defined.

    I was hoping we would of learned by now that we can't win against an idea.
    Yes. The acts committed by terrorists are crimes and the perpetrators are criminals. They should be pursued and prosecuted like any other criminals, as we have done for other forms of organized crime. Focusing on the ideas and ideology just gives the terrorists the attention and platform they seek, and encourages them to further violence. Law enforcement authorities do need to study that information to understand motives and methods, but should then keep the investigations low-key until the culprits are caught.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Sure, but we don't call Capone and Co. terrorists, we call them criminals.

    And we call them criminals because they attacked civilians, not for an ideological purpose, but for a criminal purpose.
    We would do better to call Al Qaeda criminals as well. The people they killed are just as dead as victims of the mob.

    It's a bit like the discussion of racism we were having on another thread. Hating blacks is not a crime, but acting on it violently is. Murder, assault, vandalism, theft, etc. are criminal actions, regardless of the motivations.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Yes. The acts committed by terrorists are crimes and the perpetrators are criminals. They should be pursued and prosecuted like any other criminals, as we have done for other forms of organized crime. Focusing on the ideas and ideology just gives the terrorists the attention and platform they seek, and encourages them to further violence. Law enforcement authorities do need to study that information to understand motives and methods, but should then keep the investigations low-key until the culprits are caught.


    We would do better to call Al Qaeda criminals as well. The people they killed are just as dead as victims of the mob.

    It's a bit like the discussion of racism we were having on another thread. Hating blacks is not a crime, but acting on it violently is. Murder, assault, vandalism, theft, etc. are criminal actions, regardless of the motivations.
    Jihadi terrorism is driven by the political ideology of Islam.

    We can reduce crime by arresting criminals, but we can't reduce terrorism by arresting jihadi.

    So we have no alternative but to defeat the political ideology of Islam.

  6. #166
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Jihadi terrorism is driven by the political ideology of Islam.

    We can reduce crime by arresting criminals, but we can't reduce terrorism by arresting jihadi.

    So we have no alternative but to defeat the political ideology of Islam.
    A major difference between terrorists and lightning is that terrorists feed on the fear they create in us; lightning does not. A real world, high-stakes version of "don't feed the trolls".
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #167
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    How could what he did be illegal when that law is itself illegal? Fourth amendment, people. The US government can't collect information on you without warrant. When people who normally promote civil rights, suddenly toss those out, all I see is cognitive dissonance. You can't claim to be in favor of civil rights while totally discounting one of the most important ones of all. Utterly senseless...
    You lose.

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  8. #168
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    How could what he did be illegal when that law is itself illegal? Fourth amendment, people. The US government can't collect information on you without warrant. When people who normally promote civil rights, suddenly toss those out, all I see is cognitive dissonance. You can't claim to be in favor of civil rights while totally discounting one of the most important ones of all. Utterly senseless...
    If we follow our conscience, and break a bad law, we are committing an act of Civil Disobedience.

    But then if we evade justice in the courts, we are following the principle of two wrongs make a right.

  9. #169
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    If we follow our conscience, and break a bad law, we are committing an act of Civil Disobedience.

    But then if we evade justice in the courts, we are following the principle of two wrongs make a right.
    So you consider it right to obey a bad law?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    So you consider it right to obey a bad law?
    No, I think we can disobey a bad law as a matter of Civil Disobedience. But then we show respect for the Law itself by presenting ourselves and our case at a Law Court.

    So Civil Disobedience maintains respect for the Law itself while disobeying a bad law.

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