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  1. #41
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Until then, the "cure" in this case is far worse than the disease, especially since it hasn't been demonstrated that our voting process is "sick" when it comes to fraud.
    To clarify, I don't agree with this policy to cure the fraud issue. Time and time again the amount of fraud people perceive to exist is no where near the amount that actually exists. It is usually a drain in our resources, time, and money with nearly nothing in return. I am saying that there are already tons of invasive, disenfranchised procedures and policies in place--I don't see how this is much different. I still think it is an infringement on our rights to pull people over for seat belts. They save lives, there's a ton of reasons to wear them, but the ONLY true reason they exist is because the government wants a way to get revenue and that's an easy target. There is nothing fundamentally illegal about refusing to wear a seat belt.

    The same with this situation. There is nothing illegal about lacking identification. There's no reason that not having an ID should be illegal in any way, shape, or form. But I am pointing out that having identification opens up a TON of doors and opportunities that aren't there sans one. I don't see a law like this being any more invasive than the tons of others in place, guised as protective measures.

    Many of the people prevented from voting by lack of ID do not hold jobs, due to age, disability, or a combination of poverty and geography. Some probably had IDs at one point, so their trouble was in getting them updated/renewed. Getting an ID may be the least of their worries. The ability to exercise one's right to vote is too important and fundamental to sacrifice to ideology, or "means-justify-the-ends" reasoning.
    An updated/renewed ID is ideal--though, a previous expired ID could serve in the place in many situations. I used my expired driver's license when pulled over before. The info was the same, the expiration didn't invalidate the information. Some people will always be dicks about the details, but overall ID is ID. There's still a picture with your name and face on it, expired or not.

    I used to think that our right to bear arms was a fundamental right that should not be infringed on. People do not agree with me in that aspect anymore. Everyone's nervous, alarmist, and critical of gun ownership in a way that I didn't even know existed until recently. I've lived around them my whole life without fear of dying at the end of one. Voting is absolutely critical and important.

    Theoretically, we could knock out two birds with one stone--getting accurate IDs for people needing them, and getting an accurate census and count of people that are permanent residents in the state. As I said, in reality it'll be abused like any other law introduced now-a-days. Everything has motives outside of the obvious now. Nothing is done for the sake of the people anymore.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    lol wtf. you dont need to prove your identity when voting in US?
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  3. #43
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    lol wtf. you dont need to prove your identity when voting in US?
    You do, but how you do varies by state, AFAIK.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    You do, but how you do varies by state, AFAIK.
    i dont get it and cant even find words to ask for clarification.. passport = id, drivers license = id, what ever other formal documents that proves your identity = id. how on earth do you prove your identity without id? if id isnt required, but proving your identity is, it makes no sense.. or is there some secret question like "whats the name of your first pet" to prove your identity in some states?
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i dont get it and cant even find words to ask for clarification.. passport = id, drivers license = id, what ever other formal documents that proves your identity = id. how on earth do you prove your identity without id? if id isnt required, but proving your identity is, it makes no sense..
    You could read the thread.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    You could read the thread.
    i dont care enough. op asks if it would be ok to ask people to identify themselves when voting, this hints that its not required and i went wtf. im totally fine continuing to see US as weird and fucked up country, np
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  7. #47
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i dont care enough. op asks if it would be ok to ask people to identify themselves when voting, this hints that its not required and i went wtf. im totally fine continuing to see US as weird and fucked up country, np


    I can see the logical leap there. Essentially, you do need to prove you are a citizen when you register to vote.. but after that, the states vary on how the process goes. Essentially, the argument is whether to make *state issued IDs* mandatory, instead of any old document and process as stands thusly, as far as I can tell. I'm not really so savvy on the process myself. Texas is republican for like, forever and more to come, so I have little worries about voting for bigger issues.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i dont care enough. op asks if it would be ok to ask people to identify themselves when voting, this hints that its not required and i went wtf. im totally fine continuing to see US as weird and fucked up country, np
    It's a pretty safe assumption.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    lol wtf. you dont need to prove your identity when voting in US?


    It seems to be thought of as some sort of "poll tax"; requiring citizens to prove their identity with a $50-$100 (assumed value for the sake of argument) piece of ID is 'barrier' to people exercising their right to vote.


    [devil's advocate]If people are too poor and disorganized to obtain a piece of state-issued photo ID maybe they shouldn't be allowed to vote.[/devil's advocate]

  10. #50
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    In the case at hand, I think the value (to the State) of IDing voters outweighs the burden obtaining such ID places on the same.

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