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  1. #31
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Personally, I think that some states make it intentionally difficult to obtain IDs precisely because they want it to be difficult for people to gain access to resources. My state would be one of those states.
    Precisely. If it was going to be required for voting, it would (theoretically) force states to loosen up the strings and red tape making it annoyingly difficult. People would make more of a fuss over the process, and federal government might actually be forced to step in to fix issues.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Precisely. If it was going to be required for voting, it would (theoretically) force states to loosen up the strings and red tape making it annoyingly difficult. People would make more of a fuss over the process, and federal government might actually be forced to step in to fix issues.
    It has not done so in my state and the Supreme Court upheld our law, so we are more or less stuck.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  3. #33
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    It has not done so in my state and the Supreme Court upheld our law, so we are more or less stuck.
    It's upheld many laws before overturning them.. Which law in particular are you addressing?
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  4. #34
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    It's upheld many laws before overturning them.. Which law in particular are you addressing?
    Our voter ID law.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  5. #35
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Our voter ID law.
    It's not something I am familiar with..
    To have their votes counted, they must visit a designated government office within 10 days and bring a photo ID or sign a statement saying they cannot afford one.[1]
    This, for example, says that if they lack an ID they have to sign a statement saying they lack one, which seems simple enough, but later on the dissents imply that the law is not so easy and flexible.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  6. #36
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    It's not something I am familiar with..

    This, for example, says that if they lack an ID they have to sign a statement saying they lack one, which seems simple enough, but later on the dissents imply that the law is not so easy and flexible.
    They have to go before the election board within 10 days of casting their vote and swear they are indigent. Because indigent people have ready access to transportation. Very classist, IMO.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #37
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    You go to the cityhall/citizen's service center, pull a number and wait until it is your turn (normally just a few minutes), fill out a one page form with your old and new address and immediately get a freshly printed out sticker on your ID card.
    In Finland you can do this online, and postal service will also redirect your mail for a month to your new address free of charge. ID cards only last for 5 years on the other hand (used to last longer previously). They are also very accessible. ~50 euros to make, and I'm rather sure that if you can't afford one, you'll be given one for free.

    Before the election day we receive instructions by mail that tell us where we have to vote on the election day. But there's also a chance to vote beforehand in any of the voting locations week before the actual voting day. Only a valid ID (ID, Passport, driver's license, social security card with photo are all valid IDs) is required to vote.
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  8. #38
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Precisely. If it was going to be required for voting, it would (theoretically) force states to loosen up the strings and red tape making it annoyingly difficult. People would make more of a fuss over the process, and federal government might actually be forced to step in to fix issues.
    As Cafe mentioned, this does not happen in practice. It becomes just another way to discourage voting by the poor and powerless and certain demographic groups, those who have most difficulty in trying to get a state ID.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #39
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    As Cafe mentioned, this does not happen in practice. It becomes just another way to discourage voting by the poor and powerless and certain demographic groups, those who have most difficulty in trying to get a state ID.
    The benefits of having a state ID vastly outweigh the consequences in multiple situations--not just in voting. And ANY ID counts, as stated before. Birth certificate, green card, passport, driver's license, simple state IDs...

    It's a pain in the ass. One a person needs to go through a whole total of one time to get years of benefits, job opportunities, and the multitude of other things that require IDs to function. If you lack an ID, chances are you lack work in the US too. Which means you lack money. Something's got to give somewhere.

    I did mention it should be the state's burden to ensure that those legally able to vote are able to prove as much. But a properly written law placing the burden on the state would actually do a LOT to help the poorest and most destitute.

    I have worked at a total of 1 job that did not require identification. And it abused the shit out of that.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  10. #40
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I did mention it should be the state's burden to ensure that those legally able to vote are able to prove as much. But a properly written law placing the burden on the state would actually do a LOT to help the poorest and most destitute.

    I have worked at a total of 1 job that did not require identification. And it abused the shit out of that.
    When the state shows that it can effectively require ID without disenfranchising people, this requirement will have more validity. Until then, the "cure" in this case is far worse than the disease, especially since it hasn't been demonstrated that our voting process is "sick" when it comes to fraud. Many of the people prevented from voting by lack of ID do not hold jobs, due to age, disability, or a combination of poverty and geography. Some probably had IDs at one point, so their trouble was in getting them updated/renewed. Getting an ID may be the least of their worries. The ability to exercise one's right to vote is too important and fundamental to sacrifice to ideology, or "means-justify-the-ends" reasoning.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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