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  1. #21
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Here in Germany every citizen has a national ID card (which is valid for intervals of 10 years). When you move, you have to update your adress on it within a week (they just put a little sticker with the new adress on your old ID card). You can travel within Europe with this card instead of using a passport and are supposed to always carry it on your person. It is normally used in situations in which Americans would use a social security number or a drivers license.

    Once that's done you automatically get your voting documents mailed to you whenever there is an election without having to register and then use those papers and your national ID card at the voting poll.

    Works pretty fine if you ask me.
    What kind of process is involved with officially changing your address?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    What kind of process is involved with officially changing your address?
    You go to the cityhall/citizen's service center, pull a number and wait until it is your turn (normally just a few minutes), fill out a one page form with your old and new address and immediately get a freshly printed out sticker on your ID card.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    You go to the cityhall/citizen's service center, pull a number and wait until it is your turn (normally just a few minutes), fill out a one page form with your old and new address and immediately get a freshly printed out sticker on your ID card.
    That sounds wonderful.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #24
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Nah, I know a lot of elderly people who don't have driver's licenses. It would be awfully difficult for those folks who don't have kids nearby to procure suitable IDs. Don't think this would be a fair law and hope it doesn't happen.

  5. #25
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    Why are so many people presuming the only acceptable form of ID is or should or would be a driver's licence or the like?

  6. #26
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    Why are so many people presuming the only acceptable form of ID is or should or would be a driver's licence or the like?
    That's the requirement in many states. A few examples:

    Georgia: Each elector must present a valid ID that contains a photo of the elector. Valid IDs include a driver's license, state identification card, tribal identification card, United States passport, employee identification or military identification card.

    Indiana: Public Law 109-2005 requires Indiana residents to present a government-issued photo ID before casting a ballot at the polls on Election Day. Photo IDs must meet four criteria for voting purposes: display a photo; display your name (which should match voter registration record); display an expiration date and either be current or have expired sometime after the date of the last General Election; and be issued by the State of Indiana or the U.S. government.

    Tennessee: At polling places, voters must show government-issued photo identification. Valid forms of ID do not include student ID cards from state universities.

    Student and work IDs count in some states that require photo ID, but not all. Even then- I haven't been in school in over 15 years, and I've never had a job that gave me a photo ID.

  7. #27
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It's okay if a free, voting-only ID is available. If not, then it's just another form of poll tax.
    Even if it's free, it can potentially be issued in a manner that is difficult for someone who has to work a lot and has limited resources, either through distance or hours. So you have to account for that, too.

    In summary, getting one of these IDs would have to be no skin off of anyone's back. Otherwise, it will discourage voters and the discouragement will lean against the working class. And we'd pay this price to fight voter fraud, which to my knowledge has not posed a serious problem in quite some time.
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  8. #28
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    That's the requirement in many states. A few examples:

    ...

    Student and work IDs count in some states that require photo ID, but not all. Even then- I haven't been in school in over 15 years, and I've never had a job that gave me a photo ID.
    But state IDs are issued regardless of whether the person can drive. My sister had one long before she was even eligible to be in driver's ed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Even if it's free, it can potentially issued in a manner that is difficult for someone who has to work a lot and has limited resources, either through distance or hours. So you have to account for that, too.

    In summary, getting one of these IDs would have to be no skin off of anyone's back. Otherwise, it will discourage voters and the discouragement will lean against the working class. And we'd pay this price to fight voter fraud, which to my knowledge has not posed a serious problem in quite some time.
    Less a matter of fraud to me, which I never find to be of huge concern when speaking on this vast of a scale... more-so that the standards for getting an ID sort of force people into that difficult position. Everyone says it is difficult to get an ID issued--but no one has said impossible. Harder for others, for sure, but not impossible again. IDs serve way more purposes than just voting. They allow opportunities for personnel in many other formats, and I feel it would actually help the working class to have IDs.

    They ought to be free, and they ought to be issued to everyone, because I don't know a single work place that doesn't require an ID to begin working there. If someone lacks all forms of ID, to include documents like a birth certificate, how are they working? Probably under the table. How are they getting benefits? They probably are not. They probably lack stable, adequate shelter. Even schooling, which is free for poor people at the community level, requires an ID to get into it and begin.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    But state IDs are issued regardless of whether the person can drive. My sister had one long before she was even eligible to be in driver's ed.



    Less a matter of fraud to me, which I never find to be of huge concern when speaking on this vast of a scale... more-so that the standards for getting an ID sort of force people into that difficult position. Everyone says it is difficult to get an ID issued--but no one has said impossible. Harder for others, for sure, but not impossible again. IDs serve way more purposes than just voting. They allow opportunities for personnel in many other formats, and I feel it would actually help the working class to have IDs.

    They ought to be free, and they ought to be issued to everyone, because I don't know a single work place that doesn't require an ID to begin working there. If someone lacks all forms of ID, to include documents like a birth certificate, how are they working? Probably under the table. How are they getting benefits? They probably are not. They probably lack stable, adequate shelter. Even schooling, which is free for poor people at the community level, requires an ID to get into it and begin.
    Personally, I think that some states make it intentionally difficult to obtain IDs precisely because they want it to be difficult for people to gain access to resources. My state would be one of those states.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    That's the requirement in many states. A few examples:

    <examples>
    Huh.

    Perhaps the opponents to these sorts of measures should simply focus on changing the requirements, perhaps similar to the ID requirements I talked about earlier (the requirements of Elections Canada).

    I just find the idea of having no ID requirements at all, on the face of it, absolutely ridiculous. How can an election have any integrity whatsoever if the electors don't have to prove they are who they say they are? I'm sure voting fraud is not a huge problem in the United States but come on: is it really THAT onerous for people to have some ID? How the hell do you even get a job without ID? Surely just about everybody has a Social Security Number, there's one piece of ID. Would it be that much trouble to come up with another?

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