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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Why should it cost that much money to get IDs to people?
    Because it costs more than it should for the gov't to do anything.

  2. #122
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Because it costs more than it should for the gov't to do anything.
    Very scientific.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Very scientific.
    Feel free to argue that US government bureaucracy is a model of efficiency.

  4. #124
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Feel free to argue that US government bureaucracy is a model of efficiency.
    Feel free to do all of your budgeting around a few principles sans math.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #125
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Probably because their dad didn't bother to stick around. Years ago, George W. Bush made some comment about families where the father was abusive or just walked out. He essentially blamed the women for making poor choices in men. Perhaps you share his philosophy. Indeed, good men can be hard to find.
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    He shouldn't have been a piece of shit, but could she not see the writing on the wall before she starting having kids?
    Apparently you do agree with W, that it is somehow a woman's fault if her husband is abusive or neglectful. This attitude is a huge part of the problem.

    The world, and certainly the U.S., is full of people who make bad decisions and don't handle life's problems very well. We have alcoholics and substance abusers, foreclosed homeowners, Klan members and other racists, and much more. We don't use any of these behaviors to justify disenfranchising someone, though. Same for women whose bad choice in men left them raising children in poverty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I think a serious democracy should do whatever it can t maximize input from the citizenry.
    This attitude is part of the solution.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Apparently you do agree with W, that it is somehow a woman's fault if her husband is abusive or neglectful. This attitude is a huge part of the problem.

    The world, and certainly the U.S., is full of people who make bad decisions and don't handle life's problems very well. We have alcoholics and substance abusers, foreclosed homeowners, Klan members and other racists, and much more. We don't use any of these behaviors to justify disenfranchising someone, though. Same for women whose bad choice in men left them raising children in poverty.


    This attitude is part of the solution.
    Shit no it's not her fault that he hit her. But there was no one keeping her in that relationship.

    Gotta play devils advocate.

  7. #127
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    First and foremost, voting is accessible to your friend and the entirety of the qualified (of age, not a felon) populace as it sits. No one is saying your friend can't vote, we are just saying that and ID should be required to do so.

    An ID that is required to do most things in life. Just because the DMV isn't right next door to her house doesn't mean that it's impossible. It just means that it's not simple.

    Ask a friend for a ride, hop on the bus, save up and take a cab. These are the kind of things people do everyday when they have to get somewhere. I don't see how those actions amount to moving heaven and Earth.

    Stupid decisions are stupid regardless of the number of people making them.

    If your friend really wanted to vote, she could figure out a way to make it happen. No one is stopping her from doing so. You can't frame this debate in a way that suggests that anyone is stopping anyone from voting.

    If she is unwilling to take the steps necessary to get an ID, that sound's like a choice as opposed to an externally enforced condition on her life.
    I just wanted to come back and address the bolded. If you mean that low-income people should not be having kids, you realize that if everyone followed your ideals, about half of the kids in this country would not be here. We're just at replacement rate right now. I'm not sure cutting that by half would be a good thing for the country as a whole. I'm not sure what all the consequences would be, but I know we'd have trouble adequately caring for our elderly.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #128
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    I'm pretty unfamiliar with the topic, but I can't help but wonder: little or no voter fraud has been found, right?

    But in places where you have to have an ID to vote (I'm assuming everywhere), can't this be taken as a sign that the requirement is working?

    Has there been a time/place when you didn't need an ID to vote to compare relative levels of fraud?

    If there isn't a comparison...how do you know if it is or isn't working? It's just a guess, right?
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  9. #129
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    I'm in favor for people who have a hard time getting an ID* to get a break in some form...lower cost, perhaps. Only so much you can do in some areas to make getting an ID more convenient, how many offices can they open? How many bus routes?

    I believe the state of NC allows for private run DMV offices (?!). That's how I got my tags, at least. (At least that's the impression from the sign on the wall I got). They are licensed by the state. They make their money with a $5 notary fee. There are offices all over the place.

    *See above post, if it's really even needed.

    Maybe there's a better way to do this?

    How about an RV kinda thing. Like a big bus. A mobile DMV office. Drives to the various 'hoods'. On weekends and off hours. I wonder how much that would cost to implement? Just an idea.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  10. #130
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    here in israel every adult is expected to have an ID for everything... so its not really a problem.

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