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  1. #21
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I've lived in predominantly muslim countries. In the district where I used to live in Casablanca (for instance), I was the only European white guy, the only non-muslim.
    Yet everybody would invite me anywhere, even very modest families who were anything but educated.

    You cannot fool me. Forgive me, but I prefer to trust my common sense, to trust my own first-hand experience.
    It's wonderful you live in muslim Casablanca and share your wide knowledge with us. However no less a person than Tony Blair, Ex-Prime Minister of Britain, says there is a problem with Islamic ideology.

  2. #22
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    It's wonderful you live in muslim Casablanca and share your wide knowledge with us. However no less a person than Tony Blair, Ex-Prime Minister of Britain, says there is a problem with Islamic ideology.
    It's not "wide knowledge", it's simply survival instincts, first hand experience, and nothing more.

    I don't care what Tony Blair thinks (he's a devout Christian by the way). I trust what I've lived.

    And it's no wonder Morocco has been ranked as the third friendliest country for visiting foreigners (2013), because indeed, Moroccans are way friendlier than most Europeans.

    http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/03/25/...y-to-tourists/
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    It's not "wide knowledge", it's simply survival instincts, first hand experience, and nothing more.

    I don't care what Tony Blair thinks (he's a devout Christian by the way). I trust what I've lived.

    And it's no wonder Morocco has been ranked has the third friendliest country for visiting foreigners (2013), because indeed, Moroccans are way friendlier than most Europeans.

    http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/03/25/...y-to-tourists/
    I think its great you defend moderate muslims, I do too. However as you yourself point out, there are also immoderate muslims, and my government has a realistic fear of them. My government fears them so much that all government buildings in Canberra, our Capital City, have low reinforced concrete walls around them to protect against islamic car bombs.

  4. #24
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Yes I was being judgemental there but was I being biased?
    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Hey maybe they forgot to wear the hijab. Wake up. If you grow up in a religion where its founder had sex slaves, married 11 women, had sex with a 9 year old girl all the while preaching that it is not a sin to have sex slaves and rape women of your enemies and tell that virgin criminals should be raped before being beheaded to prevent them from entering heaven because virgins have a better chance of entering heaven etc. you wouldn't assume raping women of infidels that much of a crime. Wait how could it be a crime? They are allowed to do so. Wait not allowed, encouraged. And guess what? They are implimenting sharia law in england.
    Clearly Riva, this is at the very least heavily biased (my money says it's much more). You are mixing opinion with hearsay and incident which may have occurred specific to (barbaric) culture practises rather than religion. I am not suggesting that atrocious things do not happen...far from it, more that the frequency and methods etc vary of thosecrimes and that for the vast majority these are not preached as being part of Islam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    I don't think so because I was sticking to the facts at hand. A similar incident took place in australia. A gang of lebanese islamists gang raped around 15 white australian women. When asked whether they regret their actions one of them (or a few) said that they don't regret the actions quoting the quran to explain their actions. Unlike in england they were given longer sentences. So I repeat, judgemental I was being but biased I wasn't. Who are these muslim girls? I didn't see any.
    But that's just it Riva, you are not sticking to the facts at hand, you are adding in a whole heap of vitriolic bile to the mix. I do believe in a link to what you cite here and these rapists using Islam to justify their actions however i disagree that it is fundamental to the religion to behave like this towards non muslims.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    All "religions of the book" contain ample fodder for violence and oppression of women, "infidels" and other groups. Just look at what Christians did in the crusades and inquisition, to Muslims, Jews and to women. The fact that Christians rarely practice such violence today says more about the culture, politics, and the believers themselves than the religious doctrines. Perhaps someday Islam will mature to the point where this becomes the norm for them as well.
    Right exactly. I think culture also plays a large role. For example some cultures still practise female genital mutilation... this is not exclusive to any one religion but rather by several and predates the abrahamic religions. I think the difficulty is that some religions harbour (unintentionally) particular types of criminals and therefore can be safe havens for them.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  5. #25
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    I think things like this happen all over the world, but some topics are more news-friendly than other, especially if the aggressor and victim are not from the same race. Perhaps the same gangs will try to groom Muslim girls if they are as 'accessible', and Asian girls, if the gang is in an Asian country and there are accessible Asian girls. I don't think this is an incident of Muslim gangs targeting 'white' girls.

    One thing to keep in mind is that many factors contribute to the forming of these 'ethnic gangs'. Most of them will have come from less-than-well-to-do immigrant families, and have to adapt to a new environment that does not have a good system for taking in immigrants, meaning they cannot properly assimilate. This also most likely means that they will have had limited education, sources of income, and future prospect, all of which contribute to a higher chance of criminal behavior.

    Then, the question might be: why don't we have the same problem with other ethnic groups? I'd like to point out that maybe before 911 there was never any more violence coming from specifically Muslim gangs than other types of gangs. After 911 things were different. Now there is animosity coming from both sides. Now everyone is ready to point fingers at Islam, and when they do that, it is understandable that there will be some reaction from Muslims. I'd feel the same way. If some idiot from my culture decides to bomb another country, resulting in the whole world condemning my culture for it -- maybe even if that idiot cites my country or culture or religion as their cause -- I'd still feel that the amount of hatred is unwarranted. It's like the whole world is expecting all Muslims to be apologetic for what bad Muslims do. I don't really see any other religions having to apologize for the things its bad members do.

    Again, you'd say that this is because most people don't quote their religion as the cause for their action. As someone has already said: all major religions have degrading things to say about women. But nowadays many of the religions have adapted to modern values now and do not openly preach blatantly sexist things anymore. Maybe we need to ask why fundamentalist Islam has not yet incorporated these modern values? Maybe we need to look at our own modern history -- the powers that influenced the shaping of politics in the Middle East in the past centuries, that kept things a certain way for their own benefits.

    If you are blaming the religion of Islam for everything, you are seeing only what is on the surface. The real issue is much, much more complex.

    So, going back to the question in the OP: I think they did the right thing in including the topic in sermons. This condemns bad individuals and shows the whole community that their religious authority does not support such behaviors, which is good for the wider community for a lot of reasons.
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  6. #26
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    The most recent popular converts to Islam are young white women.

    I don't know, I'd do anything in my power to stop it, it's madness.

    I think they're vulnerable in the first place, I'm glad I was born just a little too soon to catch the social disease (I have psychological issues about the former USSR instead), but apparently they think it's sexy or interesting to be Muslim.

    It makes them easy prey then for men who like to target young girls, and it's going to be a real cultural problem where it's fetishized for women to be weak and powerless and ignorant, as it is in many Arabic countries.

    There's a direct correlation between targeting very young girls (or boys) and wanting psychological and emotional power, control, etc...I've never believed it was purely physical; if it was purely physical, why wouldn't you want a fully developed 23 year old.

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