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  1. #11
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    As already said, I do not think it is only related to Islam per se. It rather looks like typical tribalism, especially the kind of local culture you have in some parts of Pakistan.
    Agreed.

    Pakistan has a history of tribalism. Violence (gang rape especially of girls and boys) is not only aimed at people of different cultures and religions but at people from rival villages of whom are of the same ethnicity and religion. So one could say this has not much to do with Islam.

    But,

    Lets not forget the fact that Mohomed himself had sex slaves and had a 9 year old wife. Add to it that England is forcefully occupying (with NATO forces) Iraq and Afghanistan (Islam majority countries) they (the culprits) probably considered these girls as women of their enemies and did what their messenger would have done.

    An act of revenge committed inline with what their holy messenger would have done under similar circumstances.

  2. #12
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Lets not forget the fact that Mohomed himself had sex slaves and had a 9 year old wife.
    It's a totally different story. The prophet married Aisha mainly for political and pragmatic reasons (as well as most of his wives). And according to what the sunna and the hadiths explain about them, they were never treated as "slaves", since Islam forbade to marry slaves, you had to free them before. The only possible occurence you are refering to is the fate of Maria, the coptic slave and possible concubine of Mohammed, but sources are not clear and contradict each other on her subject.

    Add to it that England is forcefully occupying (with NATO forces) Iraq and Afghanistan (Islam majority countries) they (the culprits) probably considered these girls as women of their enemies and did what their messenger would have done.

    An act of revenge committed inline with what their holy messenger would have done under similar circumstances.
    But from what I've read, these gangs also targeted Muslim or Indian girls. So that's why your hypothesis doesn't make sense, even if I imagine that this story is what their law counsellors have tried to sell during their trial. They're just ordinary criminals.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  3. #13
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    It's a totally different story. The prophet married Aisha mainly for political and pragmatic reasons (as well as most of his wives). And according to what the sunna and the hadiths explain about them, they were never treated as "slaves", since Islam forbade to marry slaves, you had to free them before. The only possible occurence you are refering to is the fate of Maria, the coptic slave and possible concubine of Mohammed, but sources are not clear and contradict each other on her subject.
    Yah i think that's a pretty biased view Riva has there. Or at least a judgemental one. And certainly one of contention.



    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    But from what I've read, these gangs also targeted Muslim or Indian girls. So that's why your hypothesis doesn't make sense, even if I imagine that this story is what their law counsellors have tried to sell during their trial. They're just ordinary criminals.
    Well as far as i am aware the last two gangs, the ones i linked in the op, only targeted vunerable underage white girls. Unless you have some information i have not seen yet? Please link if so.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  4. #14
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    Yah i think that's a pretty biased view Riva has there. Or at least a judgemental one. And certainly one of contention.
    Yes I was being judgemental there but was I being biased? I don't think so because I was sticking to the facts at hand. A similar incident took place in australia. A gang of lebanese islamists gang raped around 15 white australian women. When asked whether they regret their actions one of them (or a few) said that they don't regret the actions quoting the quran to explain their actions. Unlike in england they were given longer sentences. So I repeat, judgemental I was being but biased I wasn't.
    Well as far as i am aware the last two gangs, the ones i linked in the op, only targeted vunerable underage white girls. Unless you have some information i have not seen yet? Please link if so.
    Yes @Blackmail! Who are these muslim girls? I didn't see any. Hey maybe they forgot to wear the hijab. Wake up. If you grow up in a religion where its founder had sex slaves, married 11 women, had sex with a 9 year old girl all the while preaching that it is not a sin to have sex slaves and rape women of your enemies and tell that virgin criminals should be raped before being beheaded to prevent them from entering heaven because virgins have a better chance of entering heaven etc. you wouldn't assume raping women of infidels that much of a crime. Wait how could it be a crime? They are allowed to do so. Wait not allowed, encouraged. And guess what? They are implimenting sharia law in england.

  5. #15
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Yes @Blackmail! Who are these muslim girls? I didn't see any. Hey maybe they forgot to wear the hijab. Wake up. If you grow up in a religion where its founder had sex slaves, married 11 women, had sex with a 9 year old girl all the while preaching that it is not a sin to have sex slaves and rape women of your enemies and tell that virgin criminals should be raped before being beheaded to prevent them from entering heaven because virgins have a better chance of entering heaven etc. you wouldn't assume raping women of infidels that much of a crime. Wait how could it be a crime? They are allowed to do so. Wait not allowed, encouraged. And guess what? They are implimenting sharia law in england.
    You are so ridiculously prejudiced against Muslims that frankly, I don't know where to start.

    ... Or if I should start...

    Maybe you should try to live a "sane" muslim country instead, where tribalism, hatred, ignorance and blind nationalism is not as prevalent as Pakistan. And then, see what your "common sense" tells you about these people or this religion.

    Be realistic.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #16
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    You are so ridiculously prejudiced against Muslims that frankly, I don't know where to start. ... Or if I should start...Maybe you should try to live a "sane" muslim country instead, where tribalism, hatred, ignorance and blind nationalism is not as prevalent as Pakistan. And then, see what your "common sense" tells you about these people or this religion.Be realistic.
    I'm not prejudiced against muslims. I'm disgusted towards islam. My posts indicate the latter. To give you some real life examples (which I dislike doing for the purpose of proving a point) on many occasions I have defended muslims being blamed on their ethnicity or religion by indicating /not going to mention the methods because they are too long, irrelevand and would fall on deff ears/ and I have quite a few muslim friends (which I wouldn't have had if I was prejudiced). However most of them are educated people from open minded families who don't have extremist views lest I couldn't have had them as friends and also they wouldn't have had me as a friend either because the quran doesn't allow islamists to be friends of non-islamists. Anyway irrespective of them interpreting the quran in a humane way it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be taken in an extremist way by some other or maybe those same sane people under certain circumstances. You failed to address the points and the question I have mentioned in the post you've quoted.

  7. #17
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    I'm not prejudiced against muslims. I'm disgusted towards islam. My posts indicate the latter. To give you some real life examples (which I dislike doing for the purpose of proving a point) on many occasions I have defended muslims being blamed on their ethnicity or religion by indicating /not going to mention the methods because they are too long, irrelevand and would fall on deff ears/ and I have quite a few muslim friends (which I wouldn't have had if I was prejudiced). However most of them are educated people from open minded families who don't have extremist views lest I couldn't have had them as friends and also they wouldn't have had me as a friend either because the quran doesn't allow islamists to be friends of non-islamists. Anyway irrespective of them interpreting the quran in a humane way it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be taken in an extremist way by some other or maybe those same sane people under certain circumstances. You failed to address the points and the question I have mentioned in the post you've quoted.
    No Riva, what you're writing is insane. It's pure hatred.
    It's not even worth adressing the so-called "points" you raise. It's pointless and it would be a waste of time.

    It would be like discussing with a fanatical nazi why Mein Kampf and the Protocols of the elders of Zion aren't the truth about Judaism.

    When somebody is stuck into his own fantasy world, there's no way you can have a rational discussion with him.

    I've lived in predominantly muslim countries. In the district where I used to live in Casablanca (for instance), I was the only European white guy, the only non-muslim.
    Yet everybody would invite me anywhere, even very modest families who were anything but educated.

    You cannot fool me. Forgive me, but I prefer to trust my common sense, to trust my own first-hand experience.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  8. #18
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Yes I was being judgemental there but was I being biased? I don't think so because I was sticking to the facts at hand. A similar incident took place in australia. A gang of lebanese islamists gang raped around 15 white australian women. When asked whether they regret their actions one of them (or a few) said that they don't regret the actions quoting the quran to explain their actions. Unlike in england they were given longer sentences. So I repeat, judgemental I was being but biased I wasn't.Yes @Blackmail! Who are these muslim girls? I didn't see any. Hey maybe they forgot to wear the hijab. Wake up. If you grow up in a religion where its founder had sex slaves, married 11 women, had sex with a 9 year old girl all the while preaching that it is not a sin to have sex slaves and rape women of your enemies and tell that virgin criminals should be raped before being beheaded to prevent them from entering heaven because virgins have a better chance of entering heaven etc. you wouldn't assume raping women of infidels that much of a crime. Wait how could it be a crime? They are allowed to do so. Wait not allowed, encouraged. And guess what? They are implimenting sharia law in england.
    All "religions of the book" contain ample fodder for violence and oppression of women, "infidels" and other groups. Just look at what Christians did in the crusades and inquisition, to Muslims, Jews and to women. The fact that Christians rarely practice such violence today says more about the culture, politics, and the believers themselves than the religious doctrines. Perhaps someday Islam will mature to the point where this becomes the norm for them as well.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #19
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    No Riva, what you're writing is insane. It's pure hatred.It's not even worth adressing the so-called "points" you raise. It's pointless and it would be a waste of time.It would be like discussing with a fanatical nazi why Mein Kampf and the Protocols of the elders of Zion aren't the truth about Judaism.When somebody is stuck into his own fantasy world, there's no way you can have a rational discussion with him.I've lived in predominantly muslim countries. In the district where I used to live in Casablanca (for instance), I was the only European white guy, the only non-muslim.Yet everybody would invite me anywhere, even very modest families who were anything but educated.You cannot fool me. Forgive me, but I prefer to trust my common sense, to trust my own first-hand experience.
    No better way to win an point than to compare the opponent to hitler and the nazis. Anyway I was quoting 'islam' as opposed to you who is quoting your life experience in 'casablanca'. I'm not implying that muslims are dangerous suicidal homicidal maniacs. I'm quoting islam to prove that islam is a racist, sexist, destructive, anti-social religion.

  10. #20
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    We have had the same horror here. And when the islamic gang was captured, they felt they had done nothing wrong, plainly they felt justified by their culture.

    It is the same with paedophile priests, who feel they have done nothing wrong because they were protected, supported and enabled by their hierarchy.

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