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  1. #11
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post

    As for the comparison to Hong Kong, that's pretty simple. Keeping people out of Hong Kong alone is a hell of a lot easier than guarding the entire, incredibly long, sparsely inhabited Mexican-American border. And of course the protection of such walls also requires a kind of oversight from authority that's old news for the Chinese but might not be so welcome to Americans.
    Building a wall seems like a waste of money, which seems odd coming from people who rail against government spending in every other respect.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  2. #12
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Your thoughts?
    I barely have enough time to feed myself these days let alone pay attention to current events. So I can only provide a side note opinion. And that is:

    I thought Congress was supposed to be cutting costs? How much is this thing going to cost? And, I don't think it's a stretch to view this as a spending bill - at least in part.

    Regardless, I don't think they have the votes to pass it in the House. I heard that on a cable news show this morning. But then, they were also the ones that said Romney was going to win up until the hour when he didn't. So who knows . . .
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
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  3. #13
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Your thoughts?

    What is your position on the subject?

    What do you think of the Corker-Hoeven amendment that builds 700 miles of fence, hires 19,000 new border patrol people, and contributes 3.5 billion to technology?
    Transcipt of Hugh Hewitt's debate with John Hoeven: http://www.hughhewitt.com/senator-jo...corker-hoeven/

    In addition to doing a talk show, Hugh Hewitt is also a lawyer and law professor.
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  4. #14
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    I'm kinda hurt right now so I can't devote the monster post I would otherwise to this.

    The CBO came out with a report stating the savings from reform. The money is coming from those savings.

    Open borders is an absolutely stupid idea. The costs. The depression of the wage floor for the poor. Losing the national character.

    It's basically asking for our own demise as a country.

  5. #15
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I'm kinda hurt right now so I can't devote the monster post I would otherwise to this.

    The CBO came out with a report stating the savings from reform. The money is coming from those savings.

    Open borders is an absolutely stupid idea. The costs. The depression of the wage floor for the poor. Losing the national character.

    It's basically asking for our own demise as a country.
    This is why I usually don't post in your threads. I offer my opinion and it's called stupid. I disagree with you, but I don't call your ideas stupid. I'm sorry your arm hurts, but that's no excuse.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

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  6. #16
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    Short sighted then.

    Ive had a rough go of it, and am not in warm fuzzy mode. Possibly broken arm. My car riding on a donut.

    I shouldnt have said that. I should have dealt with it more judiciously.

    Sorry.

  7. #17
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Open borders is an absolutely stupid idea. The costs. The depression of the wage floor for the poor. Losing the national character.

    It's basically asking for our own demise as a country.
    Would it depress wages or actually bring them up? It seems that wages could increase if people didn't get to rely on seasonal workers who can be paid below the minimum wage.

    The costs, I suppose your report is supposed to reference that? My first impression is that keeping them out and deporting those who are here would be very expensive.

    I have no idea what the national character is or why I should care about it.

    Out of curiosity, have any of the times that this country allowed a large influx of immigrants failed to benefit the economy?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #18
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Short sighted then.

    Ive had a rough go of it, and am not in warm fuzzy mode. Possibly broken arm. My car riding on a donut.

    I shouldnt have said that. I should have dealt with it more judiciously.

    Sorry.
    Apology accepted. Thank you.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

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  9. #19
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    FWIW, if anyone's interested in a really long analysis, researched and cited, about why I advocate for open borders, I wrote a long post about it in my Wordpress blog (coincidentally before even seeing this thread).
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

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  10. #20
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    If it's all about money: what would we get for our money?

    X = number of dollars up front to build a fence and containment systems.
    Y = number of dollars per year in maintenance and in paying for border patrol, which will probably come from federal dollars, maybe a little bit of state, but either way taxpayers.

    Po = current illegal population
    Pr = Projected culling of illegal immigration (population number)?
    C =Cost of each illegal immigrant to society (actual spending on programs)? (per year)

    M = average benefit illegal immigrant brings to American business as measured in tax revenue, per year as in, how much taxable profit does a orange grower make because they can hire illegals.

    And if you really want:
    F = Fuzzy "cost" 'American Image'?

    Wow algebra been a long time, and the projected per anum bits make it complicated, but how about, 10 years out:

    Is:
    (left side - costs building wall, right side, costs doing nothing)

    ((X + 10Y) + (Pr * 10M) - (Pr *10C)) greater or less than ((Po * 10C) - (Po * 10M) + F)
    @Jonnyboy, am I doing this right?

    The goal would be to have the cost of the proposed program be less than the cost of doing nothing.

    What's missing and needs to be part of the equation?
    - tax revenue collected on legal workers
    - comparative spending of both illegal and legal workers of wages in the US on any category that will benefit business in the US, including housing
    - projected overseas outsourcing if illegals are allowed/not allowed
    - population growth, using static numbers in the above. growth (and costs) would be like compound interest, i think.
    - ?

    What am I missing?

    (the point isn't so much to actually find the answer (though that'd be nice), just to see how all the components interact)
    Last edited by Bamboo; 06-29-2013 at 02:26 PM. Reason: cleaning
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