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  1. #31
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think that its important that you stop them getting in in the first place, bad shit has already happened if they've successfully invaded, if they have succeeded in getting into the property they are fair game, I figure terminate with extreme prejudice and do not let any worries about reasonable force or whatever enter into it because that is what ruthless killers depend upon.

    Stock answer finished/

    The reality is that real survivalists would consider doing whatever it takes to live through the encounter and if there's satisfaction or justice to be sought afterwards then do that, you cant do anything if you're dead, just remember what Machavelli said about if an injury is to be done someone it should be grave enough that no retribution is to be worried about, most criminals arent going to follow that or know that and time permitting you can exact as much retaliation as you want.
    Absolutely, Lark. Absolutely. Oh, I agree with you, by the way.

    True story. A girl that we trained for only four weeks was in a parking lot one night. She was getting in her car when she felt a knife at her throat. She did a basic disarming technique that she had learned and turned the guy's blade upon his own kidney. As soon as he felt the knife pierce his skin he fled into the night, leaving the girl holding the knife with his blood on it. She got to keep the knife. Another true story. A seven year old held a kidnapper at bay with kung fu until authorizes arrived on the scene. The little girl became a hometown hero. Another true story. A sixty year old woman was getting into her car when a much bigger, younger man attacked her. She had trained for a few months in Tai Chi. She knocked him out and restrained him until the police picked him up. None of these women had black belts or brown belts or any belts. All they had was a serious commitment to retrain their reflexes and overcome their fears.

    If you just take a course, it will not guarantee you become a fighter or that you will even survive. If a person wants you dead badly enough, they'll hide on top a building and take you out with a long range rifle or something, but if they just want to rape you or rob you, then chances are they are just thugs and are probably not trained. Still, a course that you take and then forget will do you no good. If you take a self-defense course, take it seriously, let it become an everyday part of your reflexes. Attackers expect their victims to be docile. They don't expect to attack a woman and have her leap onto him and smash his trachea with the palm of her hand or have her grab the insides of his legs where the flesh is tender and pinch the life out of him. They don't expect her to jab an ink pen in his eye socket or something like that. You don't have to be black belt for these things, but you do have to overcome fear and take advantage of every opening, closing the distance. At any cost, stay out of arm's length and if you can get in, go for the goods. Do the optimal amount of damage with the least amount of effort. A predator depends on his victim's fear, on her helplessness.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  2. #32
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    I agree. I don't think anyone should think about using any weapon unless they've been trained in at least the basics of its use. A knife is used at close quarters, and it's too easy for it to be taken away and used by the attacker.

    When I was a teen, I was carrying a 6" blade as a tool when I encountered a hostile person. The first thing I did was to disarm myself and make the weapon immediately inaccessible to both of us.
    This is true. Before I left home, my dad taught me how to use a knife (a friend taught me even better) and a gun. He said to never use the knife! I had a gun and a shotgun when I lived in Florida.

    I have a good-size Aussie now that's very protective of us. I would hate to lose her and would pray that she could distract/attack someone long enough for me to bash their brains out with my bat. I admit to depending on my roommate, too, who is a very powerfully built man and rather fearless when it comes to protecting the "helpless". I'm going to get another dog or even two after he leaves but I don't want to have another gun around.

    I grew up having to watch my back especially when I was a teen so being careful about certain things is natural. I'm often surprised when I don't see this in others. @Lark and Ene yes and yes. Most people do expect easy pickings and really don't want to "fight"...beating up someone is expected. Fighting back is not.

  3. #33
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Absolutely, Lark. Absolutely. Oh, I agree with you, by the way.

    True story. A girl that we trained for only four weeks was in a parking lot one night. She was getting in her car when she felt a knife at her throat. She did a basic disarming technique that she had learned and turned the guy's blade upon his own kidney. As soon as he felt the knife pierce his skin he fled into the night, leaving the girl holding the knife with his blood on it. She got to keep the knife. Another true story. A seven year old held a kidnapper at bay with kung fu until authorizes arrived on the scene. The little girl became a hometown hero. Another true story. A sixty year old woman was getting into her car when a much bigger, younger man attacked her. She had trained for a few months in Tai Chi. She knocked him out and restrained him until the police picked him up. None of these women had black belts or brown belts or any belts. All they had was a serious commitment to retrain their reflexes and overcome their fears.

    If you just take a course, it will not guarantee you become a fighter or that you will even survive. If a person wants you dead badly enough, they'll hide on top a building and take you out with a long range rifle or something, but if they just want to rape you or rob you, then chances are they are just thugs and are probably not trained. Still, a course that you take and then forget will do you no good. If you take a self-defense course, take it seriously, let it become an everyday part of your reflexes. Attackers expect their victims to be docile. They don't expect to attack a woman and have her leap onto him and smash his trachea with the palm of her hand or have her grab the insides of his legs where the flesh is tender and pinch the life out of him. They don't expect her to jab an ink pen in his eye socket or something like that. You don't have to be black belt for these things, but you do have to overcome fear and take advantage of every opening, closing the distance. At any cost, stay out of arm's length and if you can get in, go for the goods. Do the optimal amount of damage with the least amount of effort. A predator depends on his victim's fear, on her helplessness.
    Well-said.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Absolutely, Lark. Absolutely. Oh, I agree with you, by the way.

    True story. A girl that we trained for only four weeks was in a parking lot one night. She was getting in her car when she felt a knife at her throat. She did a basic disarming technique that she had learned and turned the guy's blade upon his own kidney. As soon as he felt the knife pierce his skin he fled into the night, leaving the girl holding the knife with his blood on it. She got to keep the knife. Another true story. A seven year old held a kidnapper at bay with kung fu until authorizes arrived on the scene. The little girl became a hometown hero. Another true story. A sixty year old woman was getting into her car when a much bigger, younger man attacked her. She had trained for a few months in Tai Chi. She knocked him out and restrained him until the police picked him up. None of these women had black belts or brown belts or any belts. All they had was a serious commitment to retrain their reflexes and overcome their fears.

    If you just take a course, it will not guarantee you become a fighter or that you will even survive. If a person wants you dead badly enough, they'll hide on top a building and take you out with a long range rifle or something, but if they just want to rape you or rob you, then chances are they are just thugs and are probably not trained. Still, a course that you take and then forget will do you no good. If you take a self-defense course, take it seriously, let it become an everyday part of your reflexes. Attackers expect their victims to be docile. They don't expect to attack a woman and have her leap onto him and smash his trachea with the palm of her hand or have her grab the insides of his legs where the flesh is tender and pinch the life out of him. They don't expect her to jab an ink pen in his eye socket or something like that. You don't have to be black belt for these things, but you do have to overcome fear and take advantage of every opening, closing the distance. At any cost, stay out of arm's length and if you can get in, go for the goods. Do the optimal amount of damage with the least amount of effort. A predator depends on his victim's fear, on her helplessness.
    This too, the most important thing is are you a fighter or not. To someone who may not have the best training, but they are 100% committed to their defense, weapons like knives are quite intuitive.

    Training helps, but that commitment to not be a victim, means everything. If you're conflicted, then don't. That's why women can be insanely dangerous when you threaten their kids.

    At that moment, all thoughts of fear, doubt, social niceties fall away, and the only thing that matters is ending the threat to her kids. That's how its gotta be.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Absolutely, Lark. Absolutely. Oh, I agree with you, by the way.

    True story. A girl that we trained for only four weeks was in a parking lot one night. She was getting in her car when she felt a knife at her throat. She did a basic disarming technique that she had learned and turned the guy's blade upon his own kidney. As soon as he felt the knife pierce his skin he fled into the night, leaving the girl holding the knife with his blood on it. She got to keep the knife. Another true story. A seven year old held a kidnapper at bay with kung fu until authorizes arrived on the scene. The little girl became a hometown hero. Another true story. A sixty year old woman was getting into her car when a much bigger, younger man attacked her. She had trained for a few months in Tai Chi. She knocked him out and restrained him until the police picked him up. None of these women had black belts or brown belts or any belts. All they had was a serious commitment to retrain their reflexes and overcome their fears.

    If you just take a course, it will not guarantee you become a fighter or that you will even survive. If a person wants you dead badly enough, they'll hide on top a building and take you out with a long range rifle or something, but if they just want to rape you or rob you, then chances are they are just thugs and are probably not trained. Still, a course that you take and then forget will do you no good. If you take a self-defense course, take it seriously, let it become an everyday part of your reflexes. Attackers expect their victims to be docile. They don't expect to attack a woman and have her leap onto him and smash his trachea with the palm of her hand or have her grab the insides of his legs where the flesh is tender and pinch the life out of him. They don't expect her to jab an ink pen in his eye socket or something like that. You don't have to be black belt for these things, but you do have to overcome fear and take advantage of every opening, closing the distance. At any cost, stay out of arm's length and if you can get in, go for the goods. Do the optimal amount of damage with the least amount of effort. A predator depends on his victim's fear, on her helplessness.
    There's a lot to be said for being a good runner too and escaping.

    I know someone who escaped a forced entry into his home and slashed every one of the assailant's car's wheels and broke a window, that care was sure identifiable to police as he tried to drive it away.

    The thing which I think is dangerous is that people take some lessons in self defence or a class, those classes are more like exercise than anything else, then they imagine they're invincible and able to take on some pretty hard hearted animals who may have squat knowledge of martial arts but just enjoy hurting people and people attempting to hurt them. Dont play any assholes game that way. Dont give them the satisfaction of being part of their game to be honest.

    Apply the same logic as you would to fighting fire or flood or an animal control incident.

  6. #36
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Doesn't matter where you are, don't pull till you need to use it.

    Ignorance of the law is no excuse my friend.
    If someone is in my house, I need to use it. There are plenty of bullshit laws out there that aren't worth following. If the representatives of the government were ridiculous enough to press charges after that (which wouldn't surprise me in a lot of states) I'd rather do my time than worry about putting my safety in even marginal risk. And he'd be dead.

    If I'm in personal danger and fear of prosecution and legal fees is even remotely entering my mind as a priority then lawmakers have failed somewhere.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  7. #37
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    This too, the most important thing is are you a fighter or not. To someone who may not have the best training, but they are 100% committed to their defense, weapons like knives are quite intuitive.

    Training helps, but that commitment to not be a victim, means everything. If you're conflicted, then don't. That's why women can be insanely dangerous when you threaten their kids.

    At that moment, all thoughts of fear, doubt, social niceties fall away, and the only thing that matters is ending the threat to her kids. That's how its gotta be.
    So true. I figure it's me or them and I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure it's not me.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    I grew up having to watch my back especially when I was a teen so being careful about certain things is natural. I'm often surprised when I don't see this in others. @Lark and Ene yes and yes. Most people do expect easy pickings and really don't want to "fight"...beating up someone is expected. Fighting back is not.
    That definitely is the case, most of the serious assaults on people that I've heard of here in NI the target has been drugged or some how immobilised before the confrontation and attack even began, as you say beating someone up is anticipated their fighting back isnt. I'll never forget that bit in the movie limitless when the guy's brain floods all the memories of different public safety and martial arts movies into his consciousness when he's attacked and one of them is this guy saying "dont give up, your opponent will become demotivated and tired" or something like that.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    If someone is in my house, I need to use it. There are plenty of bullshit laws out there that aren't worth following. If the representatives of the government were ridiculous enough to press charges after that (which wouldn't surprise me in a lot of states) I'd rather do my time than worry about putting my safety in even marginal risk. And he'd be dead.

    If I'm in personal danger and fear of prosecution and legal fees is even remotely entering my mind as a priority then lawmakers have failed somewhere.
    In the UK the incidents of violence in which home owners have been prosecuted it turned out they shot at guys running away or who'd run and hidden in a ditch, I still have sympathy with anyone who defends their property in that way, no one forced those hoods to go and try a breaking and entry on the wrong person but the law was right, even if he thought they'd be back and in greater numbers he should've waited the bit out, shot at the guys when they arrived in greater numbers would be different to killing people running away.

    There was a story in the US about the drunken scots man, anyone know it? It was something about the guy coming home drunk and trying to get into a neighbours house by accident with his key and then shouting and getting aggressive because he thought he'd been broken into and the house was occupied by the house breakers, the owners shot him through the door because they thought some random was trying to force entry.

    As good a lesson against alcohol as against drawing down and firing on someone, anyway, dont know the whole story but heard it used as an argument against home defence and firearms before.

  10. #40
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    If you shoot them once they are down you are going to jail for the rest of your life.

    Same applies if you have much alcohol or weed etc... in your system.

    Don't shoot anyone outside of your house, wait for them to come in if you're going to shoot. Legal protection for defense is much weaker outside of ones home.

    Obviously that only applies if they are threatening your home and its not a car jacking etc.

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