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  1. #1

    Question Is Forced Fatherhood Fair?

    Is Forced Fatherhood Fair? (NYTimes Op/Ed)

    Women’s rights advocates have long struggled for motherhood to be a voluntary condition, and not one imposed by nature or culture. In places where women and girls have access to affordable and safe contraception and abortion services, and where there are programs to assist mothers in distress find foster or adoptive parents, voluntary motherhood is basically a reality. In many states, infant safe haven laws allow a birth mother to walk away from her newborn baby if she leaves it unharmed at a designated facility.

    If a man accidentally conceives a child with a woman, and does not want to raise the child with her, what are his choices?
    Do men now have less reproductive autonomy than women? Should men have more control over when and how they become parents, as many women now do?
    The legal scholar Jane Murphy has argued that a new definition of fatherhood is emerging in our laws and court decisions which privileges a man’s biological tie to a child over other criteria. In a 2005 article in the Notre Dame Law Review, Murphy wrote about paternity “disestablishment” cases in which men who have assumed the father role in a child’s life seek genetic testing to avoid the obligations of legal fatherhood, typically when they break up with the child’s mother.
    Furthermore, Murphy explains how the new definition of ‘fatherhood’ is driven by the government’s goal of collecting child support from men whose biological offspring are in the welfare system, as well as lawsuits from men aiming to avoid financial responsibility for their dependents.
    Feminists have long held that women should not be penalized for being sexually active by taking away their options when an accidental pregnancy occurs. Do our policies now aim to punish and shame men for their sexual promiscuity?
    ...
    Rather than punish men (or women) for their apparent reproductive irresponsibility by coercing legal paternity (or maternity), the government has other options, such as mandatory sex education, family planning counseling, or community service.
    In consenting to sex, neither a man nor a woman gives consent to become a parent, just as in consenting to any activity, one does not consent to yield to all the accidental outcomes that might flow from that activity.
    The author Laurie Shrage is a professor of philosophy and women’s and gender studies at Florida International University.

    I would love to hear this community's thoughts on this article and your responses. Please discuss.
    Last edited by iwakar; 06-23-2013 at 11:34 AM. Reason: Note: Wasn't sure if this was sexuality forum or current events, mods feel free to move if necessary.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  2. #2
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I can see reason for a man to have financial responsibility for conceiving a child, but it is a bad idea to force a person to be a parent. No child should have to face issues of resentment from a parent. I think it is preferable to have an absent parent than a resentful one. There is birth control, even if it is not entirely consistent. I would say that when two people have sex with birth control they are consenting to a low probability of conceiving a child.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #3
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Its forced. So no.
    I N V I C T U S

  4. #4
    Epiphany
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    Interesting thread. No, I don't think it is fair. I don't think many women would think it's fair either if the roles were reversed: forced to pay for a child you don't want and won't have custody of. It's not exactly pro-choice. And the child's mental/emotional wellbeing is at stake. Considering that overpopulation is arguably already a problem and will become moreso in the future, the system needs to be reformed imo.

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    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    No, it may not feel entirely "fair." That said.. life isn't fair. So when you take a risk & accidentally create a life.. chances are high the consequences of this will not feel "fair." The only thing I see as obligatory on the part of an unwilling father is financial. You made the kid, whether you wanted to or not; the reality remains that it exists, & it exists as a direct result of your (& your sexual partner's) chosen risk. No one can force you to fully take on "The Dad" role. But you are responsible by law for the physical welfare of the offspring you produce, & contributing to their physical wellbeing financially seems about as fair as you're gonna get, in this scenario.

    I do think there may need to be amendments made to child support regulations, as some can be counter-intuitive. For example, in some states, if a father hasn't paid child support, he loses his driver's license. He may have been looking for work, but hadn't gotten a new job set up yet, or literally barely making ends meet. Taking away his means of transportation accomplishes nothing.. in fact it hinders the guy from improving the situation. There probably need to be rules or standards set in place to measure these things on a more reasonable basis. That kind of penalization is blatantly retarded, to me.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  6. #6
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    No, it may not feel entirely "fair." That said.. life isn't fair. So when you take a risk & accidentally create a life.. chances are high the consequences of this will not feel "fair." The only thing I see as obligatory on the part of an unwilling father is financial. You made the kid, whether you wanted to or not; the reality remains that it exists, & it exists as a direct result of your (& your sexual partner's) chosen risk. No one can force you to fully take on "The Dad" role. But you are responsible by law for the physical welfare of the offspring you produce, & contributing to their physical wellbeing financially seems about as fair as you're gonna get, in this scenario.
    agreed. i know too many mothers who haven't gotten a dime out of the father of their children to really see this as that serious of an issue.. and a lot of those fathers were willing to begin with. and in the vast majority of situations, the acts leading up to them becoming a father weren't "forced." a man should either be very clear about the woman's intentions or very careful if they really want to avoid an unwanted child.

  7. #7
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Not really, but that's a matter of what's worse: forced fatherhood or forced abortion?
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  8. #8
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    agreed. i know too many mothers who haven't gotten a dime out of the father of their children to really see this as that serious of an issue.. and a lot of those fathers were willing to begin with. and in the vast majority of situations, the acts leading up to them becoming a father weren't "forced." a man should either be very clear about the woman's intentions or very careful if they really want to avoid an unwanted child.
    I feel like so many people are complacent about the potential consequences of sexual intercourse. Sure, talking about shitting out a human being can definitely kill the mood, but it pains my mind that this isn't discussed [even fucking briefly] AT ALL between certain parties. I wonder if there's a statistic laying around somewhere for offspring produced from one night stands, and the like..

    Any guy I had sex with knew LONG beforehand, where I stood on the topic. Them ever wanting kids became an absolute relationship dealbreaker, actually- that's how careful I am about it (not that I expect others to be that extreme). They all knew if I ever got pregnant by mistake- chances are they would never know, because I would discreetly terminate the pregnancy post haste. If they weren't accepting of this, then the banging never took place (this could be seen as a double standard on some level, but since I didn't pursue sexual relationships where these values conflicted, I don't particularly view it as such).
    actually a condom broke with an ex once, & I immediately went to the pharmacy for a morning after pill; the ex offered to pay for the whole thing, but I thought half was fair/insisted upon it; idk if this is relevant, but it feels somewhat connected, imo.

    I think if one parent decides they don't want responsibility for the kid, but the other does, the 1st party is kinda fucked (at least financially), & as shitty as that may seem, that's the most reasonable outcome. The burden shouldn't lay on upon society, in that scenario. Sure it's a bit unbalanced, but if you're able to financially cover for the kid, then I think it's primarily the place of the bio parents to do so. If a mom doesn't want her child, but the dad does, he's allowed to take custody- and he's allowed to file for child support from the mother. If neither one wants the child or is unfit, then obviously society will try to look after it, because that's generally the more compassionate action to take. But yeah, like I said.. if the guy feels fucked over (in scenario 1 here) cuz he didn't want the kid.. too bad. Fuck, and get fucked a little. Live and learn, perhaps.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  9. #9
    Epiphany
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    I feel like so many people are complacent about the potential consequences of sexual intercourse. Sure, talking about shitting out a human being can definitely kill the mood, but it pains my mind that this isn't discussed [even fucking briefly] AT ALL between certain parties. I wonder if there's a statistic laying around somewhere for offspring produced from one night stands, and the like..

    Any guy I had sex with knew LONG beforehand, where I stood on the topic. Them ever wanting kids became an absolute relationship dealbreaker, actually- that's how careful I am about it (not that I expect others to be that extreme). They all knew if I ever got pregnant by mistake- chances are they would never know, because I would discreetly terminate the pregnancy post haste. If they weren't accepting of this, then the banging never took place.
    (actually a condom broke with an ex once, & I immediately went to the pharmacy for a morning after pill; the ex offered to pay for the whole thing, but I thought half was fair/insisted upon it; idk if this is relevant, but it feels somewhat connected, imo)

    I think if one parent decides they don't want responsibility for the kid, but the other does, the 1st party is kinda fucked (at least financially), & as shitty as that may seem, that's the most reasonable outcome. The burden shouldn't lay on upon society, in that scenario. Sure it's a bit unbalanced, but if you're able to financially cover for the kid, then I think it's primarily the place of the bio parents to do so. If a mom doesn't want her child, but the dad does, he's allowed to take custody- and he's allowed to file for child support from the mother. If neither one wants the child or is unfit, then obviously society will try to do so, because that's generally the more compassionate action to take. But yeah, like I said.. if the guy feels fucked over (in scenario 1 here) cuz he didn't want the kid.. too bad. Fuck, and get fucked a little. Live and learn, perhaps.
    Ha! Fucking is what caused his dilemma in the first place. He might want to avoid that for a while or get castrated. If the father wants the unborn child and the mother decides that she doesn't want to give birth, though she consented to sex, then the man is screwed in that situation, as well.

    Though I agree. People should take precautions and understand the possible repercussions of their actions and not force the child to suffer or society to bear the responsibility.

  10. #10
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    Ha! Fucking is what caused his dilemma in the first place. He might want to avoid that for a while or get castrated. If the father wants the unborn child and the mother decides that she doesn't want to give birth, though she consented to sex, then the man is screwed in that situation, as well.
    If a woman were forced to carry a baby to term she never wanted, she'd be equally fucked over, & her life potentially endangered, depending on certain factors. But yeah.. either way.. when you fuck without discussing the outcomes/what you expect or would want to happen in the event an unwanted child occurs.. then it's safe to assume one or both parties will inevitably be screwed in some way. And no, it won't be fair, no matter what. Because, like I said.. life ain't fair. And you both just made one.

    If forced fatherhood is that frightening a prospect to a man, cryopreservation of semen is available, and subsequently, vasectomies. I've also heard there's a new birth control pill for men in the works. That ought to be interesting. Either way.. though drastic.. there are options available to be extra careful. Communication. Abstinence. Surgical intervention so you CAN'T create kids, no matter what. Given what is at your disposal.. I mean.. at the very least- communication & reflection are free. What's more fair than that? I've got an IUD installed, good for a decade to prevent kids. Was I pleased about having my cervix wrenched open to place a device up there? No, that was pretty painful. But do I have some peace of mind? You bet. Gotta be proactive; focus on what is, & not how things "should be." Reality isn't fair; the universe doesn't give a fuck what you want, & neither may other humans.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

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