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  1. #81
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    And if she didn't want an abortion?
    Then she made her decision and he made his.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #82
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I like that it's kind of "set it and forget it" but I did have a friend who said hers kept slipping out during sex. She'd find it later amongst the bedclothes. I haven't personally inspected her vagina but she seemed to have a normal sex life so I assume her anatomy was in the realm of normal. I think she eventually switched to something else, worrying that it would fall out and she wouldn't find it and wouldn't know she was unprotected until it came time to put a new one in. I know anecdote =/= data but I would be too nervous to use one myself, just based on her experience. Plus I'm not a huge fan of systemic hormones. I love my IUD and I love that the hormones are local, not systemic, but everybody needs to figure out what works for them and hormonal methods work well for a lot of people. I'm just iffy about the pill because I know too many people for whom it didn't actually "work."
    The person to question would probably be her partner because you can feel it during intercourse if you hit the right spot. If I was to guess, I'd say he probably pulled it out and wasn't paying attention.

    From what I understand, NuvaRing has lower dosages of hormones than the pill due to its proximity. An IUD may be superior, but I wouldn't rate NuvaRing with the pill in effectiveness. I'd put it somewhere in between.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Doesn't nonoxynol-9 cause cancer or something? Maybe that's BS.
    I have no idea about it, I was just assuming it was effective.

  4. #84
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    This is an issue where I side with the right of religious institutions to not be forced to pay for something they disagree with. I understand that the amount of money concerned is pretty much trivial, but the constitutional concerns worry me.
    So you're okay with businesses forcing their religious views on employees then? Before you say "Well, you wife could just work somewhere else", that's not actually true unless she wants to abandon a medical career. Residencies are assigned by computer algorithm.

    http://www.nrmp.org/

    I think everyone should have access to birth control if they want it, but that in the case of religious institutions the state should take upon themselves to provide birth control coverage. Forcing Catholics to buy BC for employees is pretty messed up. I wouldn't want to force a pro life individual to perform an abortion any more than I want to force an atheist to sit through mass.
    A Catholic hospital is not the same as the Catholic church. They are separate entities. The Catholic hospital she works for is part of a group of hospitals, all managed by a 501(c)(3).
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    So you're okay with businesses forcing their religious views on employees then?
    Hell no. I don't think BC or abortion should be forced on religious institutions any more than religious maxims should be forced on atheists.

    A Catholic hospital is not the same as the Catholic church. They are separate entities. The Catholic hospital she works for is part of a group of hospitals, all managed by a 501(c)(3).
    I didn't realize only churches were allowed to be religious institutions.

    Like I said, it's reasonable to expect insurance to cover BC (possibly even abortion) but it is wrong to force a religious institution to violate it's beliefs to do so.

    The constitutional right to religious freedom outweighs the financial cost of BC (per person) in my mind at least.

    If we were to force religious institutions to go against their beliefs, where else might we in the future force them to go against their values? I find that question very troubling.

    Given that religion generally is losing much cultural sway, I'm worried that religious institutions will be increasingly discriminated against and our media wont care at all because they aren't one of their preferred victim classes.

  6. #86
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I have no idea about it, I was just assuming it was effective.
    Supposedly N-9 isn't very effective as BC. I find a lot of quotes from the WHO and CDC but not an actual study to link to.

    Also, because N-9 is a surfacant, it basically acts as a detergent in the vagina. This is a bad thing, and among people who use it frequently, it's been shown to cause lesions and irritation which increase the likelihood of contracting HIV.

    http://www.condomdepot.com/non9/cdc-letter.cfm

    Basically, despite being the worlds most common spermicide, people say don't use it. Then again, you're not a South African sex worker, and the use by itself vs. with condoms is slightly different.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  7. #87
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't know, but I don't see how it's relevant. I thought the goal was equality, not vengeance. Vengeance is a dangerous road to travel.
    I don't seek vengeance, I point it out because the OP posed the question of whether this concept could be punishing men for their open sexuality. Which is an absurd stance. Men aren't, and never will be as far as I can tell, punished for their sexuality. It just isn't in the foreseeable future.

    Forced sterilization with reproductive licenses would be fair. Most people who are having children shouldn't be doing it anyway.
    That is a whole other issue entirely.
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  8. #88
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I don't seek vengeance, I point it out because the OP posed the question of whether this concept could be punishing men for their open sexuality. Which is an absurd stance. Men aren't, and never will be as far as I can tell, punished for their sexuality. It just isn't in the foreseeable future.
    Agreed; nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    That is a whole other issue entirely.
    Agreed again.
    If we as a society can't license responsible pet ownership, then how the hell would similar laws effectively be applied to human reproduction?
    Such an aim serves extremist ideological goals, but does not contribute to the greater good of humanity.
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  9. #89
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Agreed; nope.



    Agreed again.
    If we as a society can't license responsible pet ownership, then how the hell would similar laws effectively be applied to human reproduction?
    Such an aim serves extremist ideological goals, but does not contribute to the greater good of humanity.
    What is the greatest good of humanity?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  10. #90
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    If we as a society can't license responsible pet ownership, then how the hell would similar laws effectively be applied to human reproduction?
    Such an aim serves extremist ideological goals, but does not contribute to the greater good of humanity.
    Not a bad idea though--let's start licensing pet owners and see how quickly that devolves before we start thinking about putting humans into the mix. As if we weren't already complaining about the current services back logged because of a lack of government personnel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    What is the greatest good of humanity?
    If you're asking me? It is policies and actions that give rise to benefits of the majority--and either also to the minority, or without detriment to the minority, depending on the situation. It sort of gets icky after that..

    I'm all for idealism, but the problem with positions like that are that they will never (in these lifetimes at least) be implemented in such a way as to serve true benefit.
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