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  1. #71
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    I knew a guy though some friends who got his GF pregnant. She had the child. They tried to stay together for a while, they broke up after a year. He seemed like he just wanted to totally walk away from everything. I can understand walking away from your romantic involvement with her, but look, you have a kid. Fine you hate the mom's guts, deal with it, act like an adult. I just couldn't understand what he was thinking. The way I saw it, he was in the unique position, better than any other person out there (perhaps aside from the mother) to make a serious, real impact in this child's life. His support (or lack there-of) would create a dramatic impact.

    Nobody is forcing you to have sex. Personally, I've tended to screen who I'm having sex with. Do you want a child? If you got pregnant, would you have an abortion? I've also engaged in some risky sexual behavior, and have had girls tell me they were on birth control when they apparently were not. There would always be the chance that if pregnancy did happen she'd change her mind. Fair or not. An agreement should be an agreement, but that's not how things always turn out. Nobody forced me to have sex with her. But if there was a false agreement, that means I was led into my actions under false pretense.

    If there was a real contract in play (technically an oral contract is a real contract, at least it is in business law, but enforcement is something else...), then if no party was under duress at time of agreement than I think it should be binding. Leave it up to individuals to decide if they like the contract or don't.

    At the least *I* think you should pay for the child's needs based on what you can afford. Personally, even though at this stage in my life I don't know if I'd make for a good father (really, can any sane person really say "I'm ready to raise control and take full responsibility for another human"), I'd try anyway. It would probably mean a giant sacrifice in a lot of ways, but I'd still view it as my responsibility. It's easier to say that just sitting here than in real life, I'm sure. To some extent, even if the mother and I ended up not getting along I'd view it as my responsiblity certainly not to care for her in the sense I would a child, but to provide support for her. "Are you well?" "Are you stable?"
    The guy you knew should be forced to pay because he didn't opt out soon enough. If he wanted out, he should have done so while abortion was still an option.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The guy you knew should be forced to pay because he didn't opt out soon enough. If he wanted out, he should have done so while abortion was still an option.
    Gotta get on it quicker than that.

    Plan B for the win. Drive her and offer to pay and watch her take it.

  3. #73
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Plan B is awesome but what should people do, take Plan B after every time they have sex? I didn't see anything in Bamboo's post that indicated anything like a broken condom or anything.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Plan B is awesome but what should people do, take Plan B after every time they have sex? I didn't see anything in Bamboo's post that indicated anything like a broken condom or anything.
    Oh yea it certainly doesn't apply in his case.

    Well the first thing they should do is confirm whether or not the girl is on the pill, or make sure condoms are always available (with the spermicidal lube in case of a break).

    More importantly, they should have a talk about that prior to sex.

    But if an emergency arises, and for whatever reason the precautions didn't work, then plan b is a lifesaver.

  5. #75
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I certainly agree that highly effective birth control is a must (though I'm not a fan of the pill, actually- too much room for human error, and I know A LOT of pill babies- I'd only coach my own children to rely on it in combination with condoms EVERY TIME, but I have a strong preference for the IUD or if that's not an option, the implant) and that couples must discuss how they're going to prevent pregnancy and what they'll do if their attempts to prevent pregnancy fail. And I'm a big supporter of Plan B being available over the counter. But Plan B only works before you know you're pregnant, though. Right? I mean, I'm pretty far out of this area of life myself, so I don't have any experience with it. But from what I've read, it's for emergency contraception within like 2 days (the sooner the better) after a condom breaks or a rape occurs or just unplanned unprotected sex, before the pregnancy even actually takes place. It's not like you can take a pregnancy test, get two pink lines, and then go pop some Plan B and it's taken care of. You will need to make a decision about abortion at that point.

  6. #76
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Oh yea it certainly doesn't apply in his case.

    Well the first thing they should do is confirm whether or not the girl is on the pill, or make sure condoms are always available (with the spermicidal lube in case of a break).

    More importantly, they should have a talk about that prior to sex.

    But if an emergency arises, and for whatever reason the precautions didn't work, then plan b is a lifesaver.
    Ideally people would do something like this, but most people are poorly educated and terrible decision makers.

    Somewhat related to this subject, my wife was denied contraceptive coverage on her health insurance by the Catholic hospital that employs her. It's an especially silly policy when you consider the fact that she's 1) married and 2) pregnancies are frowned upon for medical residents. When she spoke to someone about it, the hospital suggested the rhythm method or abstinence.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #77
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I certainly agree that highly effective birth control is a must (though I'm not a fan of the pill, actually- too much room for human error, and I know A LOT of pill babies- I'd only coach my own children to rely on it in combination with condoms EVERY TIME, but I have a strong preference for the IUD or if that's not an option, the implant) and that couples must discuss how they're going to prevent pregnancy and what they'll do if their attempts to prevent pregnancy fail. And I'm a big supporter of Plan B being available over the counter. But Plan B only works before you know you're pregnant, though. Right? I mean, I'm pretty far out of this area of life myself, so I don't have any experience with it. But from what I've read, it's for emergency contraception within like 2 days (the sooner the better) after a condom breaks or a rape occurs or just unplanned unprotected sex, before the pregnancy even actually takes place. It's not like you can take a pregnancy test, get two pink lines, and then go pop some Plan B and it's taken care of. You will need to make a decision about abortion at that point.
    NuvaRing is great, too.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Ideally people would do something like this, but most people are poorly educated and terrible decision makers.

    Somewhat related to this subject, my wife was denied contraceptive coverage on her health insurance by the Catholic hospital that employs her. It's an especially silly policy when you consider the fact that she's 1) married and 2) pregnancies are frowned upon for medical residents. When she spoke to someone about it, the hospital suggested the rhythm method or abstinence.
    This is an issue where I side with the right of religious institutions to not be forced to pay for something they disagree with. I understand that the amount of money concerned is pretty much trivial, but the constitutional concerns worry me.

    I think everyone should have access to birth control if they want it, but that in the case of religious institutions the state should take upon themselves to provide birth control coverage. Forcing Catholics to buy BC for employees is pretty messed up. I wouldn't want to force a pro life individual to perform an abortion any more than I want to force an atheist to sit through mass.

  9. #79
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    NuvaRing is great, too.
    I like that it's kind of "set it and forget it" but I did have a friend who said hers kept slipping out during sex. She'd find it later amongst the bedclothes. I haven't personally inspected her vagina but she seemed to have a normal sex life so I assume her anatomy was in the realm of normal. I think she eventually switched to something else, worrying that it would fall out and she wouldn't find it and wouldn't know she was unprotected until it came time to put a new one in. I know anecdote =/= data but I would be too nervous to use one myself, just based on her experience. Plus I'm not a huge fan of systemic hormones. I love my IUD and I love that the hormones are local, not systemic, but everybody needs to figure out what works for them and hormonal methods work well for a lot of people. I'm just iffy about the pill because I know too many people for whom it didn't actually "work."

  10. #80
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The guy you knew should be forced to pay because he didn't opt out soon enough. If he wanted out, he should have done so while abortion was still an option.
    And if she didn't want an abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Gotta get on it quicker than that.

    Plan B for the win. Drive her and offer to pay and watch her take it.
    Probably a better idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Plan B is awesome but what should people do, take Plan B after every time they have sex? I didn't see anything in Bamboo's post that indicated anything like a broken condom or anything.
    I don't know the circumstances of their conception.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Oh yea it certainly doesn't apply in his case.

    Well the first thing they should do is confirm whether or not the girl is on the pill, or make sure condoms are always available (with the spermicidal lube in case of a break).

    More importantly, they should have a talk about that prior to sex.

    But if an emergency arises, and for whatever reason the precautions didn't work, then plan b is a lifesaver.
    Doesn't nonoxynol-9 cause cancer or something? Maybe that's BS.

    But Wiki says:
    There is no published scientific evidence that N-9-lubricated condoms provide any additional protection against pregnancy or STDs compared with condoms lubricated with other products. Since adverse effects due to the addition of N-9 to condoms cannot be excluded, such condoms should no longer be promoted. However, it is better to use N-9-lubricated condoms than no condoms.

    I'll admit I've had a fair amount of unprotected sex. Not a good thing. Well I mean it is until afterwards and you're both like, hey, that was dumb. Less of a risk depending on the timing of her cycle. The above is probably a good idea.

    @Ivy

    Plan B is good for:
    condoms breaking/leaking
    missed birth control
    no birth control

    ...in a time frame of immediately after sex to maybe 5 days after, maximum, 3 is recommended. (Plan B is basically a mega dose of hormones, the same found in hormonal BC)

    Also unmentioned in this thread (maybe I didn't see it) but there are chemical abortion drugs (only possible during a certain time period and NOT the same as Plan B). Look up RU486. These essentially chemically induce childbirth far ahead of schedule. Also used when the fetus dies inside the mother.

    And then phyical procedure abortion.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

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