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  1. #11
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    It's always wise to tend to one's powers of fertility. And having sex means that there is a possibility that conception could occur. It just makes sense to have a plan/discussion/whatever in place before you have sex. Prevention, course of action with accidental conception, etc. Know what you want, what your partner wants and be prepared to take care of business either way.

    I can't imagine forcing anyone to be a parent...

  2. #12
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    I don't think "forced fatherhood" is particularly fair to anyone, least of all to the child, but that's the implied bargain I think we all make when we decide to have sex with someone.

    Is there an imbalance, male vs. female, when it comes to decisions on abortions and the like? Yes, yes there is, it's inherent, and perhaps that's the trade-off men make for not having to carry a fetus to term.

    I don't entirely agree with men having to go through 'disestablishment' cases to sever an implied "legal fatherhood". If I was married and my wife cheated on me and bore his child I would fight to 'disestablish' any legal obligations I had for some other man's kid.

  3. #13
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    If you agree that forcing a woman who has conceived accidentally to become a mother is unfair, then it seems equally unfair to force a man who has conceived accidentally to become a father. I have to say I object to the idea that the father can be held financially responsible while not being held responsible for being physically present from a logical standpoint. Many women have abortions because they can't or don't want to be financially responsible for their child. If that is legal, then why shouldn't it be legal for men to refuse to be financially responsible for a child they accidentally conceived?

    I'm not necessarily condoning the legality of abortion. Adoption is an alternative that doesn't require financial or physical commitment, for example. However, I am condoning having the same standards for both men and women.

    Continuing my musing out loud: you wouldn't want people to be able to default on their commitments to their children after having them and claim that it's legal because the child was conceived accidentally. So, I guess in order to be absolved of responsibility for a child, you would have to make it clear that it was an accidental conception before birth. All of this is contingent on the agreement that you shouldn't have to be the parent to a child you have unintentionally conceived, though. If you didn't agree with that, then maybe "forced fatherhood" would make sense.

  4. #14
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I'd tell him but i wouldn't expect him to be part of the baby's life either. But if he wanted to, totally up to him really. i dunno actually never been in the situation
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  5. #15
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    I'm not necessarily condoning the legality of abortion. Adoption is an alternative that doesn't require financial or physical commitment, for example.
    @bold- Expound on how that works, please.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  6. #16
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    @bold- Expound on how that works, please.
    lol, I'm not really sure where you're looking to go with this, so if you could expound on that, I would appreciate it. If you're looking for an argument or a chance to prove a point against adoption, I don't think adoption is necessarily the answer for all pregnant women who don't want to have a child. In fact, I've voted for mostly Democrats in the past two nat'l elections, if you want to know more about my personal politics. However, I have encountered many people who think that if you don't want a child, that only having the adoption system as the alternative for releasing yourself from the day-to-day responsibility of taking care of your child is fair. To a large extent, adoption does release you from those commitments, as far as I know, and I don't find any logical problems with that argument. If you do have problems with that position, then you're welcome to state them, rather than trying to interview me about a position I don't hold.

  7. #17
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursday View Post
    Its forced. So no.
    All that needs to be said.

  8. #18
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    lol, I'm not really sure where you're looking to go with this, so if you could expound on that, I would appreciate it. If you're looking for an argument or a chance to prove a point against adoption, I'm not a pro-life person who thinks adoption is the answer for all pregnant women who don't want to have a child. I have voted for Democrats in the past two elections if you want to know more about my personal politics. However, I have encountered many people who think that if you don't want a child, that only having the adoption system as the alternative for releasing yourself from the day-to-day responsibility of taking care of your child is fair. To a large extent, adoption does release you from those commitments, as far as I know, and I don't find any logical problems with that argument. If you do have problems with that position, then you're welcome to state them, rather than trying to interview me about a position I don't hold.

    I don't know what position you hold, hence my request for further information.

    I didn't see how carrying a fetus to term could not involve heavy financial and physical commitment, is all. And I guess I don't particularly think assuming the state take the financial burden of the bio-father's half of sustaining the child is right. I mean, if he can't, he can't- & the kid's gotta eat, somehow; I get that. But to assume just because he accidentally conceived offspring means everyone else should clean up his mess by default is kind of messed up (not that you explicitly stated that, either). I wouldn't really care to pay for someone else's kid just because they didn't pull out quickly enough (or however it happened) & now can't be bothered to at the very least, provide the child a couple bucks a week for food. There are plenty of guys who really can't afford to give their kids money, but there are some who outright (have just openly admitted) they would prefer others do it. I can't really condone the latter.

    But that's my personal standpoint. I was merely trying to understand yours/compare notes, & bolded a particular statement I had trouble following in terms of reasoning.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  9. #19
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    I don't know what position you hold, hence my request for further information.

    I didn't see how carrying a fetus to term could not involve heavy financial and physical commitment, is all. And I guess I don't particularly think assuming the state take the financial burden of the bio-father's half of sustaining the child is right. I mean, if he can't, he can't- & the kid's gotta eat, somehow; I get that. But to assume just because he accidentally conceived offspring means everyone else should clean up his mess by default is kind of messed up (not that you explicitly stated that, either). I wouldn't really care to pay for someone else's kid just because they didn't pull out quickly enough (or however it happened) & now can't be bothered to at the very least, provide the child a couple bucks a week for food. There are plenty of guys who really can't afford to give their kids money, but there are some who outright (have just openly admitted) they would prefer others do it. I can't really condone the latter.

    But that's my personal standpoint. I was merely trying to understand yours/compare notes, & bolded a particular statement I had trouble following in terms of reasoning.
    Oh ok, gotcha. I'm quite wary of getting pulled into one of those ridiculous arguments online is all.

    Yeah, good point about financial and physical burden of carrying the child and giving birth to it. I don't agree with this, but I'm guessing that people on the opposing side would say that it's only nine-months and especially with the type of government sponsored health-care for everyone that we're moving toward in the US, it's not unreasonable to ask someone who chose to have sex and expose themselves to the risk of conceiving to carry that child to full-term unless there are extreme medical complications.

    Exactly. That's why I was musing that in order for people to absolve themselves of the obligation to care for their kids, they would have to claim that the conception was accidental before birth...that seems to give both men and women the same time-frame to make that decision. At the same time, as a society, we should also obligate both men and women to be equally emotionally, physically, and financially responsible for their kids too. In my opinion, that's only fair, as well.

  10. #20
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    Oh ok, gotcha. I'm quite wary of getting pulled into one of those ridiculous arguments online is all.
    No worries. I can be ridiculous at times, but I try to avoid being pedantic.

    Yeah, good point about financial and physical burden of carrying the child and giving birth to it. I don't agree with this, but I'm guessing that people on the opposing side would say that it's only nine-months and especially with the type of government sponsored health-care for everyone that we're moving toward in the US, it's not unreasonable to ask someone who chose to have sex and expose themselves to the risk of conceiving to carry that child to full-term unless there are extreme medical complications.

    Exactly. That's why I was musing that in order for people to absolve themselves of the obligation to care for their kids, they would have to claim that the conception was accidental before birth...that seems to give both men and women the same time-frame to make that decision. At the same time, as a society, we should also obligate both men and women to be equally emotionally, physically, and financially responsible for their kids too. In my opinion, that's only fair, as well.

    Too bad we're not more like seahorses. . .

    (couldn't resist.)
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

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