Okay, so I hate men because the subject is about forced fatherhood and I say that men have much more control over this situation than they think they do? The subject of the OP sounds whiny and pitiful, that is the way it comes off to me. I am saying that Everyone has a right to control what happens to their body. And, seriously, you are STILL fathering a child even if you don't elect to pay for and support it. The subject is about forced fatherhood. My FIRST post was about how fatherhood is not really about money at all. There are plenty of sperm donors out there that are not paying for children they created and they aren't receiving any real backlash for it. The potential is there, but usually they get lost in the system for years and never end up paying a dime. It isn't worth the stress to the mother and kid to get fathers to pay unwillingly.If you have a bias against males and how horrible we are . Say so, but dont try to pass it for sound reasoning. Writing 10 pages about it doesn't make it sounder either.
So, I kept it to the biological side of things. Forced fatherhood--as in, helping produce a child at all with your genes regardless of if you wanted a little clone of you running around or not. To which I say, that subject is retarded. Girls get what they want either way because it is their body being affected and changed. No one is forcing men to change their bodies to suit their needs. And no one should cause a woman to do the same. There is None man-hate in my message. I was getting a little sarcastic, but that's not the same as emoting a bunch of feminazi-propaganda all over the thread for some personal agendas or something.
I support abortion and its utilization because it is conducive to privacy and freedom of health care. It is the same reason I support vasectomies and any other medical procedure out there. They hold no difference to me.
I have said as much myself. I have recently in my blog posted in length about how lazy the morals of pro-life people are, and the reasons regarding such. I don't see why you think I have a problem with abortion. I do, however, have a problem with forced abortion, which would be the only way to stop a pregnancy from turning into a child that someone is not willing to father biologically speaking.The problem with abortion is not abortion, its people who fanatically deny it to other people, lie to them about the risk, lobby for legislation endangering real human lives for the profit of cluster of cells and would rather ruin the lives of one or both parents to be to defend their pro-life obsession.
I didn't say women have no responsibility in the matter. That is not the subject at hand. I'm trying to keep to the OP--whether forced fatherhood is fair or not. My point is, if you've done everything you can possibly do to keep a baby from appearing and one appears, no, it is not fair to expect anyone to care for it. Every precaution known to science has been taken. But, minus that, one has to recognize there is a reasonable risk of becoming at least a sperm donor when having sex.. and that to avoid that it would require forcing a woman to choose abortion, which involves forcing someone to change their bodies to suit the needs of someone else. I have an issue with that.so... in that case women, as grown adults, have to take responsibility for their choice, just like they are free to use contraceptive methods beforehand or afterwards.
It isn't that I think it is 'fair' for men to not have ANY say in anything. Men are often left out of important decisions. But the reason behind that is mostly because denying fatherhood requires abortion from a biological standpoint.
If you're just talking about money, than I don't know what to say. Fatherhood isn't about money. It has a financial aspect. But there are SEVERAL aspects that go into a child. Biology is the, arguably, the biggest one, because it involves tying your money up, your legal aspects, everything.
I was considering only normal consenting sexual encounters, they are the most frequent. I'm not trying to play moral superiority. I'm trying to show that men have quite a bit of control over the amount of pregnancies they help create, and that they should exercise those rights because they are being abused when not using them to their fullest.Yes, we understand that you hate men. And as a man I would consider neutering these guys, to the last one. but as the conversation does not mention criminal behavior it is assumed you are not referring to criminals but normal consenting sexual encounters. As someone who was part of the military and protected people by shooting at them, I don't think you really are in a position to play the card of moral superiority over a whole gender
There are risks with everything that happens medically. An IUD can puncture a uterus and sterilize the woman, as reversible as it is, at any time. I'm not wildly exaggerating anything. But when people downplay risks, I want to play their game too. "Sure, lets pretend abortions, birth control, and plan B don't hold any risks. Since they hold about the same risk percentages and side effects as a vasectomy, we now get to label a vasectomy as being perfectly fine medically." Either everything has a risk and I am right that there is no way to fully stop a pregnancy from occurring and thus we need to focus on the real issue--forcing people to change their bodies to suit the needs of others that didn't intend for other side effects to happen.I especially like how you don't seem aware of real risks that come with abortion and wildly exaggerate them while you seem completely unaware that vasectomy is the least fully reversible of all reversible birth control procedures. Make men develop allergies against their own sperm etc. but fine, it's only these, terrible, child molesting guys after all.
Seriously, dude, I thought we were friends...
If we're talking financial, then why are we even talking? Really. Money is not the most important aspect we're talking about here. Is everyone really ONLY concerned about how much they have to pay if they become a father? That's what bothers everyone the most? If this is the case, I was really REALLY off on what we were talking about in here. I'm sure we can come to some standard agreement for money... Infact, I have a great solution to it already. But I did NOT think that money was the main concern. Correct me please if I am wrong.