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  1. #91
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Hell no. I don't think BC or abortion should be forced on religious institutions any more than religious maxims should be forced on atheists.



    I didn't realize only churches were allowed to be religious institutions.

    Like I said, it's reasonable to expect insurance to cover BC (possibly even abortion) but it is wrong to force a religious institution to violate it's beliefs to do so.

    The constitutional right to religious freedom outweighs the financial cost of BC (per person) in my mind at least.

    If we were to force religious institutions to go against their beliefs, where else might we in the future force them to go against their values? I find that question very troubling.

    Given that religion generally is losing much cultural sway, I'm worried that religious institutions will be increasingly discriminated against and our media wont care at all because they aren't one of their preferred victim classes.
    Well, giving religious organizations tax exemption goes against my values. That's part of life. Religious people should have to deal with it as much as everyone else. They shouldn't get special treatment.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Well, giving religious organizations tax exemption goes against my values. That's part of life. Religious people should have to deal with it as much as everyone else. They shouldn't get special treatment.
    Yeah, when the world owes your belief system as much as it does that of those who're getting "special treatment" we can talk.

  3. #93
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The person to question would probably be her partner because you can feel it during intercourse if you hit the right spot. If I was to guess, I'd say he probably pulled it out and wasn't paying attention.

    From what I understand, NuvaRing has lower dosages of hormones than the pill due to its proximity. An IUD may be superior, but I wouldn't rate NuvaRing with the pill in effectiveness. I'd put it somewhere in between.
    IUDs are vastly superior because they offer both physical and chemical protection. (In the non-hormonal one, it is copper that is a natural spermicide. In the hormone one, it is the same drugs as the pill.)

    Nuvaring is the same effective rating as the pill. I'd argue the pill is actually less effective because it depends on compliance from the patient every single day. Nuvaring is more reliably 'taken' because it stays in.
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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, when the world owes your belief system as much as it does that of those who're getting "special treatment" we can talk.

  5. #95

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    I'm not convinced that the G20 are democracies.

  6. #96
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    No in the case of a man being raped or having his semen stolen by a wild turkey baster.

    Otherwise yes get real. What 12 year old doesn't know where babies come from. Use protection or keep it in your pants, stop trying to fuck people without condoms unless you're in a relationship and know for a fact birth control is present.

    It's his responsibilities as much as hers. Grow up.

  7. #97
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    I might be wrong, but I don't think anyone has mentioned these two points:

    - The emotional impact on the woman of having another life growing in your body. Logically, she might not want a child, but once she is pregnant, she might suddenly feel that this is another life, that if left to thrive, will eventually grow into a wide-eyed cooing, drooling human baby. To abort or not abort is not an easy decision to make. It might not even be a logical decision anymore of whether you 'want' it or not.

    - If her partner does not want a baby, the woman is screwed either way: you can have and raise the baby yourself (single mom stigma), you can have an abortion (baby killer stigma), you can give it up for adoption (bad mom stigma). No matter what you do, you are screwed.

    So I feel it's ridiculous for men to complain about having to pay for a child he does not want. Paying is a piece of cake compared to what women in the same situation have to go through.
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  8. #98
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    No in the case of a man being raped or having his semen stolen by a wild turkey baster.

    Otherwise yes get real. What 12 year old doesn't know where babies come from. Use protection or keep it in your pants, stop trying to fuck people without condoms unless you're in a relationship and know for a fact birth control is present.

    It's his responsibilities as much as hers. Grow up.
    This is my point entirely. I was really surprised this thread went farther than "Is the OP serious?" It is an absolutely childish sentiment.

    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    I might be wrong, but I don't think anyone has mentioned these two points:

    - The emotional impact on the woman of having another life growing in your body. Logically, she might not want a child, but once she is pregnant, she might suddenly feel that this is another life, that if left to thrive, will eventually grow into a wide-eyed cooing, drooling human baby. To abort or not abort is not an easy decision to make. It might not even be a logical decision anymore of whether you 'want' it or not.

    - If her partner does not want a baby, the woman is screwed either way: you can have and raise the baby yourself (single mom stigma), you can have an abortion (baby killer stigma), you can give it up for adoption (bad mom stigma). No matter what you do, you are screwed.

    So I feel it's ridiculous for men to complain about having to pay for a child he does not want. Paying is a piece of cake compared to what women in the same situation have to go through.
    Oh, but 21%, we're not thinking about men's emotions concerning their own financial stability and their potential grief for having brought a baby into the world, nor are we considering their emotional burden if they are forced to interact with a child they once wanted dead. We're stopping all of these amazing men from being doctors, lawyers, nurses, engineers, and all the other careers they were GOING to contribute to the world, I swear, before they knocked up some lady. I mean, we're really ruining their lives with our inconvenient sex.

    Apparently money is a very, very big deal to many men on this forum. And it outweighs many other concepts and principles both in themselves and others.
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  9. #99
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Oh, but 21%, we're not thinking about men's emotions concerning their own financial stability and their potential grief for having brought a baby into the world, nor are we considering their emotional burden if they are forced to interact with a child they once wanted dead. We're stopping all of these amazing men from being doctors, lawyers, nurses, engineers, and all the other careers they were GOING to contribute to the world, I swear, before they knocked up some lady. I mean, we're really ruining their lives with our inconvenient sex.


    Apparently money is a very, very big deal to many men on this forum. And it outweighs many other concepts and principles both in themselves and others.
    It's really quite disturbing, really.


    This leads me to the conclusion that Christianity got it right after all: thou shalt not have sex unless thou art trying to procreate. No sinning, people!
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  10. #100
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    No, it may not feel entirely "fair." That said.. life isn't fair. So when you take a risk & accidentally create a life.. chances are high the consequences of this will not feel "fair." The only thing I see as obligatory on the part of an unwilling father is financial. You made the kid, whether you wanted to or not; the reality remains that it exists, & it exists as a direct result of your (& your sexual partner's) chosen risk. No one can force you to fully take on "The Dad" role. But you are responsible by law for the physical welfare of the offspring you produce, & contributing to their physical wellbeing financially seems about as fair as you're gonna get, in this scenario.

    I do think there may need to be amendments made to child support regulations, as some can be counter-intuitive. For example, in some states, if a father hasn't paid child support, he loses his driver's license. He may have been looking for work, but hadn't gotten a new job set up yet, or literally barely making ends meet. Taking away his means of transportation accomplishes nothing.. in fact it hinders the guy from improving the situation. There probably need to be rules or standards set in place to measure these things on a more reasonable basis. That kind of penalization is blatantly retarded, to me.
    Yeah but what about the 9 months of pregnancy, we re not talking drunk driving related accidents here.
    If both parents are not consenting and there is time to have an abortion then why would the biological father have to pay for anything more than abortion or 50% of it.

    If the father or the mother consent , have the child, then one or both change their minds its a bit late not to assume financial responsibility. Otherwise well, abortion
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